[Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal: Discounted full-year dues
Rachel McConnell
rachel at xtreme.com
Wed Jun 16 23:32:00 UTC 2010
We don't do a fundraiser every 6 months because nobody has decided to
organize one. Someone could! But not me.
Miah Johnson wrote:
> I've never understood why Noisebridge just doesn't do a fundraiser every
> 6 months or so. Considering NB provides a location for many burners to
> work on projects year-round I don't see it being a big deal to throw the
> party during "theme camp fundraising season".
>
> Additionally, when parties/events are thrown, or people are in town for
> <big event> I don't think Noisebridge is doing enough to remind visitors
> that it is funded by donations and membership dues. Do donations get any
> type of useful data? How much does NB make in donations in <month>, or
> at <event>? 5mof tends to fill the house, does NB end up making any
> additional money?
>
> -Miah
>
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Daniel C. Silverstein
> <cubes at ghosthacked.net <mailto:cubes at ghosthacked.net>> wrote:
>
> Just as an FYI, I think the fundraiser idea is great, but it may not
> be the best timing. It's Burning Man theme camp fundraising season so
> you'll have a lot of competition for the next few months. Better to
> put it off until after the burn IMO.
>
> (Dan)
>
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Sean Cusack
> <sean.p.cusack at gmail.com <mailto:sean.p.cusack at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Hey peeps -
> >
> > This may be a stupid question, but is the problem that:
> >
> > A) People are members, but not paying dues every month, or
> > B) There aren't enough members to support the monthly noisebridge
> expenses
> >
> > Because if the answer is B, wouldn't paying for memberships up
> front not
> > really help the underlying problem that we are spending more than
> we're
> > bringing in? If the problem is A, then I like the propositions :).
> >
> > Also, as a pusher of using our talents for the outside world as
> well, should
> > we consider doing some kind of fund-raiser to the external world a la
> > burning man camps? I don't know how well these do overall, but it
> may be a
> > good way to get a couple months of rent banked kind of quickly to
> get us
> > away from the crunch and back into the safe green zone. If someone
> has a
> > good idea and needs more manpower, I'd be thrilled to help out.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Christie Dudley
> <longobord at gmail.com <mailto:longobord at gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Another question that is worth considering...
> >> Does Noisebridge have any interest-bearing accounts? If so, any
> interest
> >> we earn on these accounts would easily offset discounts awarded
> for advance
> >> payment. If not... don't you think we should if we're keeping
> 3-6 months
> >> operating expenses in the bank?
> >> Christie
> >> _______
> >> "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from
> mediocrities. The
> >> latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly
> submit to
> >> hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his
> intelligence."
> >> -- Albert Einstein
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, jim <jim at well.com
> <mailto:jim at well.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> feature suggestion: maybe the tracking system can
> >>> reward for advance payments, per the 2% or such idea--
> >>> increase the discount according to how far ahead one
> >>> has paid.
> >>> feature deprecation: there's a downside to rewarding
> >>> advance payment in the case of members who stick around:
> >>> it's less money overall (shannon's observation re
> >>> members who might not stick around is a counterbalance).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 15:04 -0700, Rachel McConnell wrote:
> >>> > I think that ensuring that each member pays their dues, at least
> >>> > mostly,
> >>> > is the solution that will work for the entire group in the
> long run. I
> >>> > don't think people are consciously blowing us off, i think
> they simply
> >>> > forget, and then six months later they are like, oh, i paid ... a
> >>> > little
> >>> > while ago? I think? So I believe the first need is a system that
> >>> > tracks who has paid their dues and (ideally automatically) emails
> >>> > people
> >>> > with a reminder periodically until they have paid. After we
> do that we
> >>> > can see if we need to put in any kinds of discounts.
> >>> >
> >>> > (Leif, a percentage discount over a whole year, paid at once,
> is more
> >>> > money than N (<12) monthly payments and a big OOPS-I-FORGOT.)
> >>> >
> >>> > I've pinged Hackerdojo to ask about their system which Christie
> >>> > mentioned. I will volunteer to evaluate that, if possible,
> and report
> >>> > back. Will someone else evaluate Miah's suggestion of
> Salesforce, and
> >>> > maybe a third person evaluate the suggestion I also saw which was
> >>> > bottom
> >>> > posted, an hour or two ago?
> >>> >
> >>> > My take on the requirements for such a system are:
> >>> >
> >>> > * can track dues payments by member identifier (alias, email
> address,
> >>> > whatever anonymous key we want)
> >>> > * can automatically email those who are N days late
> >>> > * is easy for the treasurer to keep up to date
> >>> >
> >>> > Rachel
> >>> >
> >>> > aestetix aestetix wrote:
> >>> > > I don't think it's really fair to qualify whether a group is
> alive or
> >>> > > dead based on financial numbers. It's more of a mentality and
> >>> > > motivation
> >>> > > of the people. If a group is in danger for whatever reason,
> be it
> >>> > > financial, political, or anything else, having a call to
> bring people
> >>> > > together to save the group proves that it's alive and well.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > It's just like my teacher used to say during the Iraq War
> debate:
> >>> > > lots
> >>> > > of bickering about what should be done actually means there
> are a lot
> >>> > > of
> >>> > > people who care. I think rather than fingerpointing and
> ensuring each
> >>> > > member pays their dues, we should band together, help each
> other out
> >>> > > where we can, and figure out a solution that works for the
> entire
> >>> > > group
> >>> > > in the long term.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > aestetix
> >>> > >
> >>> > > PS: I am not a communist.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim <jim at well.com
> <mailto:jim at well.com>
> >>> > > <mailto:jim at well.com <mailto:jim at well.com>>> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > there's a difference between dying and dead, too.
> >>> > > general rule of thumb is to have about six months
> >>> > > expenses in the bank and start panicking when it
> >>> > > gets down to three. time to panic, according to
> >>> > > the general rule.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 12:40 -0700, aestetix aestetix wrote:
> >>> > > > Are we actually in the red?
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > There's a big difference between not having a few months
> >>> > > wiggleroom,
> >>> > > > and having our checks bounce.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rachel McConnell
> >>> > > <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>
> <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>>
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > oooh I had no idea! yeah i'll get in touch
> with them
> >>> > > right
> >>> > > > away. i did
> >>> > > > search various open source repos and found nothing
> >>> > > useful...
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > Christie Dudley wrote:
> >>> > > > > Katie from Hacker Dojo was mentioning they'd put
> >>> > > together a
> >>> > > > complete
> >>> > > > > open source package for managing things,
> including
> >>> > > payment
> >>> > > > tracking and
> >>> > > > > so forth that they're interested in sharing. It
> >>> > > might not
> >>> > > > be a bad
> >>> > > > > idea, and foster a bit of goodwill if we at
> least had
> >>> > > a look
> >>> > > > at that,
> >>> > > > > don't you think?
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > The problem may already be solved for us.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > Christie
> >>> > > > > _______
> >>> > > > > "Great spirits have always found violent
> opposition
> >>> > > from
> >>> > > > mediocrities.
> >>> > > > > The latter cannot understand it when a man
> does not
> >>> > > > thoughtlessly submit
> >>> > > > > to hereditary prejudices but honestly and
> >>> > > courageously uses
> >>> > > > his
> >>> > > > > intelligence." -- Albert Einstein
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Rachel
> McConnell
> >>> > > > <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>
> <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > > <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com
> <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>
> >>> > > <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>>>
> >>> > > wrote:
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > It's all done by hand right now, there's no
> >>> > > automation.
> >>> > > > I mean the bank
> >>> > > > > account (and paypal, etc) tracks that $X has
> >>> > > shown up,
> >>> > > > but there isn't
> >>> > > > > any system to associate it with a particular
> >>> > > member.
> >>> > > > Sometimes a
> >>> > > > > payment comes with a note; if it's a
> check you
> >>> > > have to
> >>> > > > go look at the
> >>> > > > > name on the check, etc.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > jim wrote:
> >>> > > > > > Y'all have reminded me of payment,
> so there
> >>> > > must
> >>> > > > > > be some tracking in place, yes?
> >>> > > > > >
> >>> > > > > >
> >>> > > > > >
> >>> > > > > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 10:29 -0700, Rachel
> >>> > > McConnell
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > > >> I like this in theory but in practice
> it would
> >>> > > be
> >>> > > > folly to officially
> >>> > > > > >> promote it until we have an
> accounting system
> >>> > > that
> >>> > > > can support it.
> >>> > > > > >> Already we don't know who is paid up
> and who
> >>> > > isn't;
> >>> > > > work is
> >>> > > > > underway on
> >>> > > > > >> a system to manage this but let's get it
> >>> > > working
> >>> > > > first before we make
> >>> > > > > >> massive changes to it.
> >>> > > > > >>
> >>> > > > > >> Rachel
> >>> > > > > >>
> >>> > > > > >> jim wrote:
> >>> > > > > >>> (seems like a discussion of policy.)
> >>> > > > > >>> per the proposal and the points:
> >>> > > > > >>> * how much to discount for a one year
> >>> > > pre-payment
> >>> > > > seems
> >>> > > > > >>> the difficult part: too little and
> no one
> >>> > > goes for
> >>> > > > it;
> >>> > > > > >>> too big and we miss out on possible
> income;
> >>> > > variable
> >>> > > > > >>> (maybe within some limits, hoping for
> >>> > > generosity)
> >>> > > > may
> >>> > > > > >>> work....
> >>> > > > > >>> * if we don't have a "real accounting
> >>> > > system", as
> >>> > > > long
> >>> > > > > >>> as we can track payments with respect to
> >>> > > members,
> >>> > > > this
> >>> > > > > >>> seems a non-issue. for example, i
> pay by the
> >>> > > quarter
> >>> > > > > >>> and haven't had any problems. if a
> payment is
> >>> > > > recorded
> >>> > > > > >>> as income for the current month, is
> there a
> >>> > > tax
> >>> > > > > >>> implication?
> >>> > > > > >>> * we should certainly try to help
> our current
> >>> > > cash
> >>> > > > > >>> crunch"; the overall downward trend
> scares
> >>> > > me.
> >>> > > > > >>> * grabbing a year's supply of money
> may help
> >>> > > the
> >>> > > > > >>> initially excited retain their
> interest over
> >>> > > a
> >>> > > > longer
> >>> > > > > >>> time period, which seems an
> additional value.
> >>> > > > > >>> * i'm not convinced of your
> arithmetic, but
> >>> > > > certainly
> >>> > > > > >>> money today is worth a fair amount
> more than
> >>> > > money
> >>> > > > > >>> some later day, especially if
> there's some
> >>> > > question
> >>> > > > > >>> about getting money on those later
> days. a
> >>> > > real
> >>> > > > > >>> answer to this might help settle the
> discount
> >>> > > > problem.
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > > > >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 09:49 -0700,
> Shannon
> >>> > > Lee
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > > >>>> Hi All,
> >>> > > > > >>>> This idea has been brought up at
> several
> >>> > > meetings
> >>> > > > now and no
> >>> > > > > >>>> satisfactory resolution reached, so
> >>> > > obviously it's
> >>> > > > time to
> >>> > > > > expand the
> >>> > > > > >>>> conversation!
> >>> > > > > >>>> The specific proposal brought up
> last night
> >>> > > was
> >>> > > > this:
> >>> > > > > >>>> If you pay your dues a year at a
> time, you
> >>> > > can
> >>> > > > knock $20 off.
> >>> > > > > Or one
> >>> > > > > >>>> month's dues off. Or some amount of
> money.
> >>> > > > > >>>> Many perspectives were voiced on
> this. I
> >>> > > think
> >>> > > > it's a good idea;
> >>> > > > > >>>> others disagreed, primarily
> because, as we
> >>> > > do not
> >>> > > > have a real
> >>> > > > > >>>> accounting system, this amounts to
> counting
> >>> > > a
> >>> > > > year's dues as this
> >>> > > > > >>>> month's revenue.
> >>> > > > > >>>> Again, I think this is a good idea,
> for the
> >>> > > > following reasons:
> >>> > > > > >>>> * it could help with our current
> cash cruch
> >>> > > > > >>>> * it means that people who get very
> excited
> >>> > > about
> >>> > > > noisebridge
> >>> > > > > for just
> >>> > > > > >>>> long enough to be members and then
> never
> >>> > > show up
> >>> > > > again have the
> >>> > > > > >>>> opportunity to pay a whole year's
> membership
> >>> > > > upfront
> >>> > > > > >>>> * the economic value of a bird in
> one's hand
> >>> > > is
> >>> > > > double that of
> >>> > > > > a bird
> >>> > > > > >>>> in a bush
> >>> > > > > >>>> Thoughts?
> >>> > > > > >>>> --
> >>> > > > > >>>> Shannon Lee
> >>> > > > > >>>> (503) 539-3700
> >>> > > > > >>>>
> >>> > > > > >>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is
> >>> > > > indistinguishable from
> >>> > > > > science."
> >>> > > > > >>>>
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > > > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> > > > > >>>>
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> >>> > > <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
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> >>> > > > >
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> <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> >>> > > <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>>>
> >>> > > > > >>>>
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > > > >>>
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