[Noisebridge-discuss] call for action - Mr. Salvador/Salvator Dalajlama is back

Thu Nov 4 20:31:56 UTC 2010

Oh dear lord I really didn't need to see that.
But ya, that is him.

On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Gian Pablo Villamil <gian.pablo at gmail.com>wrote:

> That's him in the background, isn't it?
>
> I'm getting kind of tired of having to deal with various deranged people to
> get things done. I've had stuff taken from my shelf, and project materials
> "appropriated".
>
> I recall that the somewhat more exclusive membership approach at NYCR
> didn't seem to get in the way of people doing cool stuff.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 4:55 PM, meredith scheff <satiredun at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I have talked to him, very directly, twice, and been brushed off or spaced
>> out. He knew what I was talking about and chose to ignore it.
>> He doesn't want to be at *noisebridge*, he wants to be somewhere for free
>> where he can be high.
>> m
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:46 PM, aestetix aestetix <aestetix at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> For context, we've had this discussion many times, in many forms. In some
>>> forms, it's been ways to keep certain people, like kids or individuals, out
>>> of Noisebridge, or even debating setting hours of "visitation." In others,
>>> it's been getting awesome new tech and making sure all the members have it,
>>> like RFID. In others, it's been cutting off parts of Noisebridge to people
>>> who were not considered members, like the DJ booth/wall incident.
>>>
>>> I think all of these represent exclusion of someone who is being targeted
>>> for a certain amount of time, for a certain reason. So here are some of the
>>> things Noisebridge has done to make sure that exclusion hasn't happened:
>>> we've passed keys to people all over the world (thanks Mitch!), making sure
>>> people knew that keys are not tied to membership, but to being awesome.
>>> We've set the door system as a locking system that's deliberately pickable,
>>> to make sure that someone who doesn't have a key, but has the knowledge or
>>> resource to enter, is able to. We've argued against setting parts of
>>> Noisebridge to be locked, because every part of Noisebridge should be
>>> totally accessible to everyone, unless it is specifically labeled otherwise
>>> (such as a member's shelf or a project with a sign on it). These labels, of
>>> course, should be added with excellence towards others in mind.
>>>
>>> <devil's advocate viewpoint>
>>> Now regarding this individual, against whom it seems the mob has been
>>> calibrated: first, what a fucking awesome name. Salvador Dalajlama? He may
>>> not understand the connections made by that name, but it takes two people
>>> who I think are quite important and combines them. It wins creativity points
>>> from me.
>>>
>>> Second, I read in one of these emails that the dude scaled the fire
>>> escape to get in, and people are concerned enough that they're considering
>>> putting a lock in the sliding door or something. That guy has guts, and is
>>> creative. How many people have been locked out of a place and gave up after
>>> 10 minutes and went somewhere else? And this dude loves Noisebridge so much
>>> that he fucking climbed up the side of the building to get in? That's
>>> hardcore! We need more people willing to do crazy shit and take risks like
>>> that.
>>> </devil's advocate viewpoint>
>>>
>>> So, here's my actual take on it. I think there's a communication
>>> breakdown, where a lot people think "we" have "attempted" to "talk" to him,
>>> and "failed." Instead of uniting against him, why not have the community ask
>>> a member (of the community, not necessarily Noisebridge) who we all trust to
>>> take all of our ideas and have a private chat with him? That way, rather
>>> than having a bunch of people all hit him with complaints, we have one
>>> person who's filtering them all, and in the process learns this guy's
>>> viewpoint and maybe even forms a friendship with him. I think that would be
>>> much more effective than arguing about whether to exclude him or not, and it
>>> would be easier to connect with him that way.
>>>
>>> aestetix
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Christie Dudley <longobord at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's been a discussion of getting a maglock in place since we moved
>>>> into the building.  It'd make things easier for everyone, I think.  I can't
>>>> remember the exact reason that project was dropped.  I think it had
>>>> something to do with the cost of the system and Noisebridge not being able
>>>> to come up with a consensus to shell out or the landlords not being OK with
>>>> it or there not being power in the area to run the thing. I think all of
>>>> those were discussed at some point.
>>>>
>>>> HOWEVER I'd be willing to bet that this guy is NOT getting in via any QR
>>>> code, rotating or non-rotating keys, or any other sorts of technical
>>>> trickery, but rather he's either coming in when people are leaving or he has
>>>> his own physical key.  I'd put money on him waiting outside so he can enter
>>>> as others are leaving.  That's a pretty common trick amongst the homeless.
>>>>
>>>> Christie
>>>> _______
>>>> But wait... there's no FCC on the moon!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Carl Sue <theabcasian at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On the note of security hacker dojo has an rf I'd key and maglock
>>>>> system could this be something we can get in place, I know there has been
>>>>> controversy over it but perhaps now would be a good time to start talking
>>>>> about it, what about keeping the current buzz in but add the maglock and
>>>>> remove the key it would also give us a notice that the door is open and
>>>>> needs to be shut. on that note im guessing leaving the door open even for
>>>>> workshops is bad maybe we can get rid of the type that people use to hold
>>>>> the door open?
>>>>> On Oct 30, 2010 2:06 PM, "meredith scheff" <satiredun at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > If everyone on this thread tells him he's not welcome, that's a whole
>>>>> hell
>>>>> > of a lot of mojo in this guy's face.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I, as much as I really don't like this guy, also detest the calling
>>>>> police
>>>>> > option. HOWEVER: *threatening* to call the police is just fine. I
>>>>> also don't
>>>>> > like the sign idea, it's passive aggressive, and who knows what this
>>>>> guy's
>>>>> > faculties for recognizing his own face.
>>>>> > Direct confrontation. Calm, direct, keep the message clear and
>>>>> simple.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > As for safety policies, I'm all for keeping them a bit higher, but
>>>>> please
>>>>> > don't think I mean TSA. I mean, we're in a sketchy hood, and so far
>>>>> we have
>>>>> > been adrift in a sheltered harbor of anonymity and obscurity, and
>>>>> that is
>>>>> > ending or has ended. We need to recognize that. Can we get the
>>>>> rotating key
>>>>> > back up?
>>>>> > I don't think we should *change* the lock, but we could lock the
>>>>> glass door
>>>>> > at night.
>>>>> > These items i believe are for the next meeting. I can't make this
>>>>> tuesday
>>>>> > because of prior obligations, but would love to be a part of the
>>>>> discussions
>>>>> > the meeting afterwords.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Also, here's an idea: for membership applications, have there be a 1
>>>>> week
>>>>> > period between the end of the application and the initiation. Post
>>>>> that
>>>>> > person's name on the list or the wiki (or their moniker, or whatever)
>>>>> so
>>>>> > that folks who can't make the meeting can weigh in, as well.
>>>>> > I realize that doesn't actually help with the problem of random
>>>>> weirdos
>>>>> > (more weird and random than the normal) but it's an idea.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Keep calm and carry on
>>>>> > Meredith
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Jonathan Lassoff <jof at thejof.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Sean Cusack <
>>>>> sean.p.cusack at gmail.com>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> > So, can we reinforce with him that he's not welcome and maybe
>>>>> serve him
>>>>> >> up
>>>>> >> > an ultimatum? Something like, "hey, you know you aren't welcome
>>>>> here -
>>>>> >> > you've been told before. Its not a crash pad, or a place that
>>>>> things can
>>>>> >> be
>>>>> >> > taken from. So, please take off. If you can't stop coming back,
>>>>> we'll
>>>>> >> have
>>>>> >> > no choice but to call the cops".
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Personally, I really detest the idea of calling the police to get
>>>>> this
>>>>> >> guy to leave.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> If anything, I think this is a good chance for us to unite and look
>>>>> at
>>>>> >> our security practices for access control. For a *hacker*space of
>>>>> all
>>>>> >> things, I think our "security" at 2169 is pretty dismal (read:
>>>>> >> nonexistent).
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> A couple of things I think we can start doing:
>>>>> >> - Ask on the intercom who is coming in
>>>>> >> - Remove a public QR code by the front door
>>>>> >> - Make sure the "key" page on pony is properly rotating its keys (it
>>>>> >> seems to have stopped)
>>>>> >> - Repair / replace the lock on the door from the stairwell and/or
>>>>> elevator
>>>>> >> gate
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> What other things can we do to make sure we're not just letting in
>>>>> >> total strangers without greeting them first?
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > doing stuff and making things
>>>>> > ---
>>>>> > "The function of all art ... is an extension of the function of the
>>>>> visual
>>>>> > brain, to acquire knowledge; ...artists are, in a sense, neurologists
>>>>> who
>>>>> > study the capacities of the visual brain with techniques that are
>>>>> unique to
>>>>> > them. ." -Semir Zeki
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> doing stuff and making things
>> ---
>> "The function of all art ... is an extension of the function of the visual
>> brain, to acquire knowledge; ...artists are, in a sense, neurologists who
>> study the capacities of the visual brain with techniques that are unique to
>> them. ." -Semir Zeki
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>

-- 
doing stuff and making things
---
"The function of all art ... is an extension of the function of the visual
brain, to acquire knowledge; ...artists are, in a sense, neurologists who
study the capacities of the visual brain with techniques that are unique to
them. ." -Semir Zeki
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