[Noisebridge-discuss] take it easy, it is just an another situation to learn from

Thu Apr 21 19:55:09 UTC 2011

Hi Frantisek,

Please explain something to me: In your opinion, what is the difference
between having somebody take the money home (a treasurer) and having a box
in the space that anyone may have a key to? It's also a little hard to take
your talk of openness seriously when it's only happening in closed emails.

You're not just interfering, you're trying to run the show, and it's not
unwelcome. Please stop.

/Rikke

P.S.: Thanks for the offer, but we've already got a hook-up through Om Shan
Tea House, so I think we'll be alright.

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 9:32 AM, <algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org> wrote:

> Look Rikke,
> Most support which we got from people to start the project and to keep it
> running was given by people who are directly against charging fees for
> classes because of the openness of Noisebridge and strongly arguing against
> any locked boxes which have appeared quite recently and were unwelcome by
> many. It is just as it is, good or bad doesn't matter, I take it as a fact.
>
> It is hard for me to know how Tastebridge is doing because there are close
> to no posts on the Tastebrige webpages or on the discuss lists. I've lowered
> the amount of my posts partly because I wanted to create more space for
> others to go ahead. And yes also because it takes a hell of time to keep
> thing like this alive and vibrant and I've my limitations.
>
> I do understand that people have different amounts of time, again that is
> fact. I've just been trying to remind ways which we have used before to get
> money and which worked. We have been loosing money on donations before as
> Noisebridge did. It is not a new thing. I just strongly feel that the gain
> from having it open over weight the amount of money loosed if managed well.
>
> Concerning the openness of access that is questionable. After doing this
> for a while I've still always open box on my events and during my
> activities. I think it is not just cool, it works at least for me and I
> hoped it could be sustainable for Tastebridge too. I just do not think that
> this system is necessary.
>
> I've expressed my opinion, that is all what I can do now so I do not
> interfere too much.
>
> If you take the road of locked system, so be it but I would love to see
> another solution how to keep the budget in plus numbers and donation box
> open. If you feel that the time constrain is too big, I would understand of
> course. However taking money on regular basis has the advantage of not
> tempting too much. I think that to see $5 and $50 lying on a table is for
> many people different grade of temptation.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Frantisek
>
> PS Please do not feel harmed that is certainly not an intention of my
> comments. However I've a strong view on some things and that is one of the
> reason why I'm able to get support to do things from some people and quite
> gaining quite nothing from others.
>
> PS II. It may be that I'll apply in the future the closed box system too,
> but I hope I'll not have to. I would have to be strongly forced to do so. It
> may be hard to explain  but this is one of the things which is important for
> me and for the projects which I run.
>
> PS III. I may ask Three Stone Hearths if they would be OK to make some
> order for us for whole sale prices. They would not be probably very happy
> about it mostly because it would complicate their accounting system.
>
>
> Quoting Rikke Rasmussen <rikke.c.rasmussen at gmail.com>:
>
>  Frantisek,
>>
>> It's not a matter of people not donating - on the contrary, we've been
>> doing
>> fine just with the weekly kombucha and a little food here and there - it's
>> a
>> matter of us having very deliberately *not* having locked away or removed
>> any funds, exactly because no one wants to have to make any decisions that
>> detract from the openness of our community, and someone then having taken
>> advantage of that openness.
>>
>> Don't see the principal difference between a treasurer removing the money
>> and a locked box in the fridge that anyone can get keys and access to? It
>> wouldn't be the only donation box in the space with a lock on it, either.
>>
>> Stocks have been managed better than you might expect - we're still
>> running
>> on the last of what you bought just before you left. I thank you for the
>> advice, but while I appreciate that Tastebridge was your full-time
>> occupation, none of us currently have that option, and I can't help but
>> feel
>> a little hurt by the implication that it can't function any other way. I
>> think we've been doing really well, all things considered.
>>
>>
>> /Rikke
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck  <algoldor at yahoo.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Rikke,
>>> I understand your frustration but I really strongly feel that locked
>>> donation box solution is not a good solution, the project would be harmed
>>> considerably. There is a very strong part of Noisebridge which is against
>>> locking anything within the community. In this case I think that distance
>>> doesn't matter, another solution should be applied.
>>>
>>> I do not know strategies what are the current Tastebridge strategies to
>>> accumulate resources and I've not seen any numbers being published
>>> recently
>>> of how do we do but based on previous experience:
>>> - the Tuesday member dinner worked fine and donations were collected and
>>> counted directly so no problem there, just leave few dollars in the box
>>> ($1-10)
>>> - the underground markets are hard to prepare for but it is an amazing
>>> way
>>> how to get resources too and again fully controlled with no strings
>>> attached
>>> - other option which helped before is send an email to the community to
>>> ask
>>> for resources for the brewing program to continue (I can do that)
>>> - of course taking out money on regular bases should work fine if some
>>> one
>>> is around to do so. I bet someone trusty even not affiliated to
>>> Tastebridge
>>> would do it. Again leaving $1-10 in the donation box and having the
>>> donation
>>> box on as much stable position worked fine for months.
>>>
>>> I'm sending this to you in person so you can think about that. If you go
>>> this way you will loose more than you gain and I'll have to comment on
>>> this
>>> because this was, is and will be one of the fundamental principles behind
>>> Tastebridge - open as much as possible. People who supported Tastebridge
>>> in
>>> the past are mostly strongly against the locking solutions. I know that
>>> very
>>> well and yes I'm one of them too and there are very strong reasons for
>>> that.
>>>
>>> So please try to take care about that in a different manner I do not have
>>> a
>>> problem to write to some folks to try to get some resources. Once the
>>> ingredients are bought they last quite a while if managed well. I think
>>> the
>>> major problem is the money management, someone has to be "treasurer" for
>>> Tastebridge and really take care about it. I'm using Tastebridge as a
>>> concept where ever I go and it works but it is not easy sometimes but I
>>> deeply feel it is worth it.
>>>
>>> If it happens that Tastebridge in Noisebridge will become inactive that
>>> is
>>> life. I'll and many others will be sorry but I'll continue to promote the
>>> idea somewhere else and I'll revive it once in San Francisco again it
>>> will
>>> take just a little bit longer than if it was kept running.
>>>
>>> Best of luck and enjoy the "painful thorns" of the beauty of the open
>>> movement :-))
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Frantisek
>>>
>>> PS I'm going to post very short note asking you to reconsider, if you
>>> want
>>> post this email that is absolutely fine do so preferably to both lists.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Rikke Rasmussen <rikke.c.rasmussen at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* Tastebridge <tastebridge at lists.noisebridge.net>;
>>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net;
>>> biobridge at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> *Sent:* Thu, April 21, 2011 9:01:46 AM
>>> *Subject:* [Noisebridge-discuss] The Mystery of the Disappearing
>>> Donations
>>>
>>> Hey people,
>>>
>>> Amanda and I have bottled yet another batch of kombucha for y'all to
>>> enjoy
>>> - they're currently sitting on the Tastebridge shelf, awaiting
>>> refrigeration
>>> tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Am much dismayed to note, however, that the Tastebridge donation jar (the
>>> small screw top one we keep our funds in) currently contains only $9.00
>>> (6
>>> of which were put in tonight, and down from ~$35.00 on Monday night) -
>>> nowhere near enough to replenish our almost depleted stock of tea and
>>> sugar
>>> (base ingredients). This basically means that we've got barely enough for
>>> another batch, and won't be able to make any more unless money magically
>>> reappears. I'll immediately take the (painful!) step of putting a locked
>>> box
>>> in the fridge for kombucha donations - anyone who feels they should have
>>> a
>>> key can ask me for one.
>>>
>>> Sorry folks, but this really sucks. Please help me make sure this doesn't
>>> happen again.
>>>
>>> /Rikke
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
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