[Noisebridge-discuss] personal computers at Noisebridge (was Re: Missing Green Bike /w Red Grips.)

Thu Feb 3 22:02:22 UTC 2011

I agree with Jim's observations. I think a lot of people presume some
implicit behaviour from what they see, without actually explicitly asking
(because explicitly asking is seen as rude or presumptuous or there is a
fear that it will lead to some sort of confrontation that cannot be ended by
simply closing the email client).

Isky labels stuff, but I've never seen him not allow others to use it. I've
seen him tidy up and do interesting stuff around the space on many
occasions.

A while ago I left my hat in the space, and after asking around, I
discovered that Isky had it. I asked it for him back, and he gave it back.
My presumption is that Isky feels that that is how people mostly treat stuff
in the space: that there's no expectation of ownership, but an expectation
that something will be well-cared for until it is returned/used. That would
obviously clash with someone who felt that a) something labelled with
someone's name should not be touched, or b) felt that one should be
tentative with all stuff that appears to be owned by someone. I would hazard
that Isky would be somewhat surprised that someone would feel they couldn't
use the desktop machine, and hurt if they did use it, but purely to hide
under a bunch of fabrics. I actually think that how Isky behaves is more
like what I read to be the norm at NB (but not my own norm). I was pretty
upset my hat had vanished, but happy with how it all turned out.

Also, and I fear that this is a side-effect of our general respect for
privacy, rumors do quickly escalate. There was a long bubbling rumor that
"someone" had put Noisebridge on coachsurfing.com. People would mutter
incredulously about this, and there was a rash of someone anonymously
putting a funny picture and a link to a couchsurfing entry on the frontpage
of the Noisebridge wiki to make a point.

I looked into this -- the couchsurfing entry was Isky's, but on close
examination, it was pretty obviously his nearby apartment that he was
advertising. Lots of people who couchsurfed with Isky had been brought by
him to explore NB (I've seen a few of them come by) and all of them were
amazed and impressed by our space, and by Isky's gentle and proud
explanation of how it worked.

Once again, if you perceive a problem, you should speak to the person
involved, and ask them questions. If you feel uncomfortable doing so
yourself, you can email me or talk to someone like Miloh or Rachel (I'm
guessing!) and we could help mediate or raise the issue in a non-threatening
way. Even small matters can quickly escalate, and it's a function of our
size and the nature we have a lot of sub-groups that communication between
them is often harder than communication within them.

I feel that part of being a do-acracy is being a say-ocracy. You need to say
what you're doing so others know, and if you have problems, talk to the
person you perceive to be a problem as a first step.

I would also say that while people label all of this as drama, I see it as
an attempt to improvise a conflict-resolution system, in the face of some
real challenges of how to do that in a respectful way.

d.

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:34 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
>
>    i think you may be mistaken on a couple or three
> points:
> * isky exercising owner's priority: i've seen him
>  defer to others.
> * no one asks isky for permission, not that i've seen.
> * that ruben and several others croak out their ideas
>  is fine and should be considered. there are others,
>  both "old" and "new" who also have ideas. we seem
>  to agree on (and avoid as much as possible) the
>  convention of consensus, and at least agree on the
>  one rule of "be excellent to each other".
> * isky labels his stuff, as some have suggested, not
>  necessarily as his pee mark on the space or equipment.
> * isky also shares his bike with others. seems
>  "excellent" that others who take or move his bike
>  do so in a way that doesn't provoke anxiety--i.e.
>  leave a note or say something to an appropriate
>  person.
> * seems to me we must tolerate each other at a minimum.
>  there should be no requirement that anyone mix with
>  any others, not even an expectation. come and do your
>  thing, be happy, allow other stuff to go on too,
>  whatever is the other stuff. be mindful of survival
>  (no illegal drug activity, no booze to minors, no
>  hacking the infrastructure contrary to city codes,
>  chip in money for the rent...).
>
>
> On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 09:15 -0800, Patrick Keys wrote:
> > The distinction is that Quagga is a public computer that belongs to
> > Noisebridge. Isky's computer is Isky's personal computer to exercise
> > "owners priority" over.  Nobody should have to ask permission to use a
> > public computer in a public hackerspace.  To repeat what Ruben and
> > several others told me before: you don't loan stuff to Noisebridge.  You
> > either donate it or put it away when you're not using it.
> >
> > If it were a laptop that could be easily moved, that'd be one thing.
> > Many people leave their laptops and netbooks at Noisebridge all the
> > time.  When they are in the way, people just move them aside.
> >
> > But what Isky's done is put his personal gaming computer on a desk,
> > accompanied by a note that it belongs to him, effectively declaring that
> > space as his personal territory.  It's not Isky's personal office.  It's
> > public Noisebridge space.  Same deal with the bike: he leaves his
> > personal bike up at Noisebridge, taking up public space, and then gets
> > upset when somebody moves it.
> >
> > Regardless of his intent - and I don't necessarily think Isky has bad
> > intentions... that Isky only posts messages about his own personal
> > immediate needs indirectly says to others that the only person Isky
> > really cares about is himself. And that's less than excellent, to say
> > the least.  But I repeat: I don't necessarily think Isky intends to come
> > across that way.
> >
> > On a positive note, on seldom occasion I see Isky with his netbook
> > actually sitting outside the Turing classroom with everybody else.  If
> > he took the gaming computer home or donated it, and spent more time
> > communicating with everybody else in the common areas, that would be
> > more excellent.
> >
> > (This is my hopefully my final post on this matter.  To respect others,
> > based on the traffic this list generates, I now keep myself on a
> > personal quota for messages I post in a given 24-hour period.  I've damn
> > near reached it.)
> >
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/3/2011 5:33 AM, Jake wrote:
> > > if a computer is set up at noisebridge, and is available to be used by
> > > anyone at any time, unless someone else is already using it, it is a
> > > de-facto "public computer".
> > >
> > > if Isky has not exercised "owners priority" over other people who are
> > > using the computer when he shows up, the computer is being used in a
> > > public way.
> > >
> > > It is my understanding that the computer is not password-protected
> against
> > > use by the public, and Isky does not ask people to Step Aside any more
> > > than Miloh does so on Quagga (near the spectrum monitor) so the only
> > > issues I can identify are as follows:
> > >
> > > 1. some people apparently have personal differences with Isky
> > > 2. some people may be chaffed by Isky being set up in Turing
> > > 3. some people may wish they could spend as much time at Noisebridge.
> > >
> > > I think we should all ask ourselves if we could be spending our energy
> > > more productively and interestingly than even talking about this.
> > >
> > > For example - the wheelchair robot needs a Kinect for a head, so it can
> > > tell what it's about to run over.  Who will be its next programmer?
> > >
> > > -jake
> > >
> > > ---- someone wrote ----
> > >
> > >
> > >       isky shares his computer with others, and seems to
> > > me pretty freely.
> > >
> > >       maybe define "the issue": i'm guessing something
> > > like "some of us are pissed off that you've been
> > > keeping your personal computer in that spot for so
> > > long." (is that right?)
> > >       whatever the issue definition, thence a
> > > discussion. i don't mind these long, boring email
> > > storms because they seem part of being here and with
> > > each other, one way to work things out.
> > >
> > >
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