[Noisebridge-discuss] personal computers at Noisebridge (was Re: Missing Green Bike /w Red Grips.)

Frantisek Apfelbeck algoldor at yahoo.com
Fri Feb 4 08:42:04 UTC 2011

Hi There,
I've to say that there have been just few classes in the turing classroom which 
would fill the place up so there is no place for one or two more persons who are 
doing something quietly on their machines. Most of the time, if there are too 
many people they move to the Church classroom anyway. I really do not think that 
the classes and few other people in the room are issues as long as they keep 
quiet. It would be good if more people who are in charge/active in the classes 
said what they think because that is what would matter most I think.

The other good point is that if you like calm and a bit separated environment 
the classrooms are the best and the only place where you can work (doors closed 
or not). Not every one is very productive in a big open spaces with a lots of 
people circulating around, it is not easy sometimes to keep your attention 
focused and many people are really trying to come to Noisebridge and work out 
from there. Other advantage is that if you sit most of the time on one spot and 
if somebody is looking for you it is quite pretty easy to catch you. I think 
that what we may see here is one place missing. Something a bit separated from 
the rest of the place and what is designed for laptops/desktops usage, 
preferably for 3-6 people and it is not meant as a classroom, in other words no 
booking schedule. It should be also a bit further from the doors. Library sounds 
close, but the set up is not done for longer sitting I guess on purpose (however 
I've not seen there too many people reading ...).

Well best of luck,


    the linux sys adm study group lists its 
3-6 PM get-together in the turing classroom. 
sometimes isky is there, sometimes someone 
else is there, a few times some other group 
was there. 
    we've gotten along fine. we don't ask 
anyone to leave. we do our thing and anyone 
who's in the room is welcome to participate 
or not, not problem. 
    i don't understand how it's a problem 
to have a class in a room where people are 
using computers for their private purposes. 
if they don't like it, they can leave. if 
they don't mind, why should we mind? 

On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 17:44 -0800, Shannon Lee wrote:
> I think "based out of" is exactly the issue.  Classrooms are for
> classes; for groups that want to be able to close the door for an hour
> and talk about 3d modeling or their startup or whatever.  As such,
> they're a shared resources, shared amongst the various groups who use
> Noisebridge.
> Normally, the way time in the classrooms gets allocated is that a
> group that is meeting a certain time looks in each space and attempts
> to claim one, moving on if it seems to be "in use."  The trouble is,
> Turing is currently *always* in use, because someone's always camped
> on that PC.
> And it is very different, asking someone on a laptop to move versus
> asking someone using a desktop PC to move; in the one case, you're
> just asking them to free up space, taking their laptop-based activity
> someplace else; in the other case, you're actually asking them to stop
> doing whatever they're doing, log out, clean up, etc.  This is exactly
> why we had a long discussion about Not Having Desktops In The Space,
> Lo These Many Years Ago At 83c. Apparently on a night when Rachel
> didn't come ;)
> So if someone is on the computer in Turing, nobody else will end up
> using Turing for, eg, classrooms, except those who have enough of a
> personal relationship with Isky to feel comfortable asking him to
> move; consequently we have one less classroom at Noisebridge.
> Honestly, this is really the reason I don't like the idea of there
> being public terminals in Noisebridge: because it creates a space
> where someone is always permanently camped; and there already is one
> of those, it's called the public library.
> I have several times asked Isky to move his computer out of the
> classroom, and he has not done so.  Others have also asked.  What's
> the correct next step?  In other cases, we've simply moved furniture,
> walls, etc in order to create a more felicitous environment; is moving
> (or removing) a computer different that moving (or removing) a couch?
> --S
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck
> <algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:
>         Hi There,
>         I've to agree with Jim, especially with point of mixing
>         different circles and
>         awareness of the people who spend time together. I've been
>         based in Turing
>         classroom for nearly a half year and it was a great spot for
>         both work and
>         relax. I liked the people and dynamic of the place. If you
>         wanted to work it was
>         no problem and if there was a big class claiming whole place
>         you just moved for
>         hour or two somewhere else, done.
>         Sharing resources at Noisebridge is a pivotal point of this
>         community and I've
>         to say that Isky is doing a great job in that. Other thing
>         which I like a lot
>         are the crowds of cool people who he is bringing in to the
>         place. Also the way
>         how he approaches any "difficult situation" is socially very
>         developed, at least
>         in majority of the cases. Therefore I hope that things will be
>         sorted so it will
>         allow Isky to further contribute to the community. I'm very
>         glad that the things
>         were found.
>         Best of luck to all of you,
>         Sincerely,
>         Frantisek
>         PS I'll be announcing the start of my hacker tour around
>        Europe and Japan within
>         few days. It will be posted on my web pages which I'm now
>         transferring to tiki
>         wiki (I've some issues ...).
>         ----- Original Message ----
>         From: jim <jim at systemateka.com>
>         To: rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com>
>         Cc: Andy Isaacson <adi at hexapodia.org>; Frantisek Apfelbeck
>         <algoldor at yahoo.com>;
>         Noisebridge <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>         Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 5:08:06 PM
>         Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] personal computers at
>         Noisebridge (was Re:
>         Missing Green Bike /w Red Grips.)
>            seems to me there are little areas of the space that
>         have their own ecologies. the turing classroom has its
>         habituals. while i'm in different circles from isky's,
>         sitting together puts each of us in awareness of the
>         other's circles. this seems a natural dynamic, possibly
>         to be encouraged, always to be hacked.
>            there's an additional element of non-rules-ness
>         that's not been mentioned in this thread: claims.
>            the events section on the front page of the
>         noisebridge wiki has one-time and repeating events
>         listed. i believe a convention is established that such
>         listings effectively claim resources.
>            for example, i expect that each tuesday and friday
>         afternoon those of us who care can break out the
>         nano-rack of server boxes, power its noisy ass up, and
>         work on studying django and linux skills, and
>         furthermore, if some other persons or groups want us
>         to shut up or go away or want to use the stuff we're
>         using, whatever the contention, because we've posted
>         the event, we win and can continue what we're doing.
>            of course, before and after the times posted, we
>         have no claims and must try to accommodate any others
>         who want us to shut up or go away or use the stuff we
>         are using, probably first come first serve in that case.
>            and not a bad idea that we may be forced out of our
>         hidey hole to mix with "them out there" in other hidey
>         holes.
>         On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 07:32 -0800, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:
>         > FWIW I was trained as a 'conflict mediator' ages and ages
>         ago, and I
>         > would be happy to sit down with dissenting parties to work
>         on
>         > problem-solving.
>         >
>         > I am not interested in discussing how noisebridgey isky is
>         or if he's
>         > excellent enough. I don't presume to judge his relative
>         worth. I also
>         > am not going to demand that a student surrender ownership of
>         a machine
>         > he already shares to a community of people who already have
>         access to
>         > it.
>         >
>         > There are so many computers laying around at NB it boggles
>         my mind
>         > that one more could be considered over the line. It would be
>         cool if
>         > the monitor and keyboard were commonly usable; I would
>         totally plug my
>         > netbook into them every once in a while. Maybe there's a
>         better place
>         > to keep the whole setup than in the classroom?  There is a
>         game
>         > computer on the west wall, maybe this could be turned into a
>         general
>         > station and then when isky or someone wants to use his
>         machine they
>         > can fire it up. This would free up that classroom for the
>         crowds of
>         > students clamoring for separated learning space, and give us
>         a way to
>         > lovingly throw spitballs at isky when he plays video games
>         instead of
>         > hacking the planet.
>         >
>         > mediumreality.com
>         >
>         > On Feb 2, 2011 6:30 PM, "Andy Isaacson" <adi at hexapodia.org>
>         wrote:
>         > > On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 05:44:44PM -0800, Rachel McConnell
>         wrote:
>         > >> If you have a problem with someone's behavior, talk to
>         them.
>         > >
>         > > I have tried to talk to Isky about this issue. He's been
>         unwilling
>         > to
>         > > communicate about it. I have heard from at least two other
>         community
>         > > members who've also tried to discuss it with him and
>         gotten blown
>         > off.
>         > >
>         > > I'd appreciate it if someone who has a good rapport with
>         Isky could
>         > help
>         > > mediate better communication. Rachel or Rachel?
>         > >
>         > > My position is, I don't think that there should be
>         personal desktop
>         > > systems set up long-term at noisebridge. It causes a bunch
>         of
>         > problems:
>         > >
>         > > 1. it doesn't scale. We don't have room for everyone's
>         systems.
>         > > 2. it encourages the "owners" of the systems to assert
>         property
>         > rights
>         > > to specific areas of the space.
>         > > 3. it's wasteful of power. ($7-$40 a month per PC, if I
>         math right.)
>         > > 4. it encourages the "owners" to overuse the Noisebridge
>         space,
>         > > sometimes to the exclusion of other community members.
>         > > 5. the "owner" is likely to feel personally affronted if
>         their
>         > system is
>         > > used to construct a giant robot.
>         > >
>         > > I have no problem with temporary (8 hours, 48 hours) use
>         of the
>         > space in
>         > > just about any innovative way -- hackathons, installfests,
>         robot
>         > > construction that temporarily takes over the entire front
>         room --
>         > but
>         > > that's not what is happening here. As far as I know,
>         there's been an
>         > > "Isky's computer" in one of the classrooms continuously,
>         for the
>         > last
>         > > several months.
>         > >
>         > > -andy
>         > > _______________________________________________
>         > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>         > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>         > >
>        https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>         >
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> -- 
> Shannon Lee
> (503) 539-3700
> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
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