[Noisebridge-discuss] i object to lockers for noisebridge

lilia liliakai at gmail.com
Thu Feb 17 14:45:26 UTC 2011

nothing wrong with shelves with doors.
plenty of em in the kitchen.
topologically they are equivalent to closed cardboard boxes on shelves
of which we also have many.
but lockers imply locks.
i believe its more the locked/lockable storage that most objectors object to.

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:39 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>    i don't get it. how come shelves with doors (lockers)
> are a problem? i don't see that has anything to do with
> privacy or anonymity or anything else other than maybe
> keeping stuff from falling out. we have member shelves
> so that people can keep parts of their projects safe
> from repurposing. the lockers seem to do that.
> On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 04:49 -0800, Jake wrote:
>> I have stated before and i'll say again that I think that there are plenty
>> of shelves which are not currently in use, and can be re-assigned by a
>> team of non-contraversial members in order to clear up shelf spaces.
>> I think it has been decided in the past that Noisebridge is not a place
>> for people to securely store their stuff, and that the most someone can
>> expect is a shelf upon which they can deposit their items with their name
>> upon the shelf.  To diverge from this would be fundamental enough that it
>> would have to be discussed at a meeting, and in the interest of informed
>> consent, announced as an agenda topic ahead of time so that people could
>> participate.
>> Personally I feel that use of publicly available space at noisebridge for
>> the private storage of peoples' property is not only a negative use of the
>> space, but subtracts from the magic of communalism that has been achieved.
>> Regarding the decay of civility and reason in threads leading to this, I
>> remind everyone that our most important rule is BE EXCELLENT TO EACH
>> OTHER.  This is a rule.  If what you're saying is intended to fuck with
>> someone, you are BREAKING the ONLY RULE.  It is up to each and every
>> person to follow that rule.  Do not fuck with the only rule we have.
>> And as a reminder, I want to say explicitly, that I feel strongly enough
>> about the lockers and have observed enough other people expressing similar
>> feelings about them, that if someone wants to get lockers they should put
>> that topic on the agenda of the next meeting (by posting so to the list)
>> so that we can discuss it properly as a group.
>> Thank you for reading.  Also, +1 on what Snail says below.
>> -jake
>> Patrick Keys <citizenkeys at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > The lockers would be opaque.  I think everybody at Noisebridge values
>> > their right of anonymity.  Not worrying about other people seeing what's
>> > on your personal shelf or messing with it seems like a benefit.
>> >
>> >
>> Snail snailtsunami at gmail.com wrote:
>> What do people want to store at noisebridge that they really need to keep
>> hidden, which can't be stored on a harddrive? That's kind of worrisome.
>> Maybe an open, public space is not the best place to keep private,
>> personal possessions. -- People need to keep their tools and whatknot for
>> hacking in the space, but need they be SECRET? If you're going to use it
>> in the space, where it will be seen by everyone, why does it have to be
>> STORED in secrecy? -- And if it's not going to be used in the space, why
>> is it there, taking up space in a locker?
>> Plus, this is about right to privacy, not anonymity -- a shelf is
>> anonymous but not private, unless you put your name on your belongings (or
>> someone dusts for fingerprints and has a copy of yours to match; DNA
>> TESTS!!). If you don't believe me, just look at the fact that there are
>> constantly tons of possessions swirling around the space whose owners are
>> unknown, sometimes resulting to e-mails asking who has borrowed their
>> stuff, even though everything is in plain view. This is very much not
>> about valuing peoples anonymity and more about concern that people are
>> doing secret things in an open space. You won't necessarily reveal
>> someone's secret identity by stealing their wire cutters or PS2.
>> I don't think anyone has a guarantee of privacy at noisebridge -- if you
>> are there, someone will drop by and look over your shoulder and ask what's
>> going on, because that's why you are there (to have people talk to you and
>> get an excuse to talk about your project). Lockers wouldn't really
>> guarantee privacy unless everyone TRUSTED the person using the locker. We
>> only have what privacy we do when people are considerate AND trust we are
>> not doing something unsavory; but if people were concerned someone was
>> storing something unsavory in a locker, it wouldn't be long before someone
>> picked the lock or forced it open just to be safe.
>> Most importantly, to me, locked lockers would make me feel less safe
>> because suddenly part of the open space is not open. I feel safe at
>> noisebridge because EVERYTHING is open (save the bathrooms, for ~15
>> minutes at a time), and anything bad that could happen to someone or
>> anything unsafe which would be stored could be found by the community, as
>> people eventually wade through the piles and piles of junk.
>> (To be honest, you're probably guaranteed a good amount of privacy if you
>> leave something under a pile of junk and people are too APATHETIC to check
>> -- but it still gives people the option of securing their own surroundings
>> and safety.)
>> Plus, people tend to leave a lot of crap at the space and never throw it
>> out, so periodically the locks would just have to be broken so the
>> contents could be tossed as the lockers just give people a chance to
>> exercise even more of their packrat tendencies.
>> You know, if anything, I would describe noisebridge as a hole for packrats
>> >_> maybe giving people the chance to store even MORE things at the space
>> is the opposite of what the community needs. I feel like half of the space
>> is already consumed by objects: the members' shelves area, the area behind
>> those shelves (is that more members' shelves?), the entire wall with the
>> windows facing Mission St., the full wall of bikes, the construction
>> things in the kitchen, more shelves in the not-Turing classroom, stuff by
>> the tea room storing things for the kitchen (because right beside the
>> kitchen is storing construction things).... Now that I think about it,
>> where the hell are these lockers going to stand among all this other
>> stuff?
>> Of course, it's been a month or so since I've been in the space, so maybe
>> some of this is cleared up or organized by now (hahaha yeah right, I will
>> buy everyone BEER* if you can make me eat those words).
>> *Not guaranteed to be expensive or good-tasting beer. I'm on a budget.
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