[Noisebridge-discuss] i object to lockers for noisebridge
jim at well.com
Thu Feb 17 15:11:59 UTC 2011
On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 06:45 -0800, lilia wrote:
> nothing wrong with shelves with doors.
> plenty of em in the kitchen.
> topologically they are equivalent to closed cardboard boxes on shelves
> of which we also have many.
> but lockers imply locks.
> i believe its more the locked/lockable storage that most objectors object to.
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:39 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> > i don't get it. how come shelves with doors (lockers)
> > are a problem? i don't see that has anything to do with
> > privacy or anonymity or anything else other than maybe
> > keeping stuff from falling out. we have member shelves
> > so that people can keep parts of their projects safe
> > from repurposing. the lockers seem to do that.
> > On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 04:49 -0800, Jake wrote:
> >> I have stated before and i'll say again that I think that there are plenty
> >> of shelves which are not currently in use, and can be re-assigned by a
> >> team of non-contraversial members in order to clear up shelf spaces.
> >> I think it has been decided in the past that Noisebridge is not a place
> >> for people to securely store their stuff, and that the most someone can
> >> expect is a shelf upon which they can deposit their items with their name
> >> upon the shelf. To diverge from this would be fundamental enough that it
> >> would have to be discussed at a meeting, and in the interest of informed
> >> consent, announced as an agenda topic ahead of time so that people could
> >> participate.
> >> Personally I feel that use of publicly available space at noisebridge for
> >> the private storage of peoples' property is not only a negative use of the
> >> space, but subtracts from the magic of communalism that has been achieved.
> >> Regarding the decay of civility and reason in threads leading to this, I
> >> remind everyone that our most important rule is BE EXCELLENT TO EACH
> >> OTHER. This is a rule. If what you're saying is intended to fuck with
> >> someone, you are BREAKING the ONLY RULE. It is up to each and every
> >> person to follow that rule. Do not fuck with the only rule we have.
> >> And as a reminder, I want to say explicitly, that I feel strongly enough
> >> about the lockers and have observed enough other people expressing similar
> >> feelings about them, that if someone wants to get lockers they should put
> >> that topic on the agenda of the next meeting (by posting so to the list)
> >> so that we can discuss it properly as a group.
> >> Thank you for reading. Also, +1 on what Snail says below.
> >> -jake
> >> Patrick Keys <citizenkeys at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > The lockers would be opaque. I think everybody at Noisebridge values
> >> > their right of anonymity. Not worrying about other people seeing what's
> >> > on your personal shelf or messing with it seems like a benefit.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Snail snailtsunami at gmail.com wrote:
> >> What do people want to store at noisebridge that they really need to keep
> >> hidden, which can't be stored on a harddrive? That's kind of worrisome.
> >> Maybe an open, public space is not the best place to keep private,
> >> personal possessions. -- People need to keep their tools and whatknot for
> >> hacking in the space, but need they be SECRET? If you're going to use it
> >> in the space, where it will be seen by everyone, why does it have to be
> >> STORED in secrecy? -- And if it's not going to be used in the space, why
> >> is it there, taking up space in a locker?
> >> Plus, this is about right to privacy, not anonymity -- a shelf is
> >> anonymous but not private, unless you put your name on your belongings (or
> >> someone dusts for fingerprints and has a copy of yours to match; DNA
> >> TESTS!!). If you don't believe me, just look at the fact that there are
> >> constantly tons of possessions swirling around the space whose owners are
> >> unknown, sometimes resulting to e-mails asking who has borrowed their
> >> stuff, even though everything is in plain view. This is very much not
> >> about valuing peoples anonymity and more about concern that people are
> >> doing secret things in an open space. You won't necessarily reveal
> >> someone's secret identity by stealing their wire cutters or PS2.
> >> I don't think anyone has a guarantee of privacy at noisebridge -- if you
> >> are there, someone will drop by and look over your shoulder and ask what's
> >> going on, because that's why you are there (to have people talk to you and
> >> get an excuse to talk about your project). Lockers wouldn't really
> >> guarantee privacy unless everyone TRUSTED the person using the locker. We
> >> only have what privacy we do when people are considerate AND trust we are
> >> not doing something unsavory; but if people were concerned someone was
> >> storing something unsavory in a locker, it wouldn't be long before someone
> >> picked the lock or forced it open just to be safe.
> >> Most importantly, to me, locked lockers would make me feel less safe
> >> because suddenly part of the open space is not open. I feel safe at
> >> noisebridge because EVERYTHING is open (save the bathrooms, for ~15
> >> minutes at a time), and anything bad that could happen to someone or
> >> anything unsafe which would be stored could be found by the community, as
> >> people eventually wade through the piles and piles of junk.
> >> (To be honest, you're probably guaranteed a good amount of privacy if you
> >> leave something under a pile of junk and people are too APATHETIC to check
> >> -- but it still gives people the option of securing their own surroundings
> >> and safety.)
> >> Plus, people tend to leave a lot of crap at the space and never throw it
> >> out, so periodically the locks would just have to be broken so the
> >> contents could be tossed as the lockers just give people a chance to
> >> exercise even more of their packrat tendencies.
> >> You know, if anything, I would describe noisebridge as a hole for packrats
> >> >_> maybe giving people the chance to store even MORE things at the space
> >> is the opposite of what the community needs. I feel like half of the space
> >> is already consumed by objects: the members' shelves area, the area behind
> >> those shelves (is that more members' shelves?), the entire wall with the
> >> windows facing Mission St., the full wall of bikes, the construction
> >> things in the kitchen, more shelves in the not-Turing classroom, stuff by
> >> the tea room storing things for the kitchen (because right beside the
> >> kitchen is storing construction things).... Now that I think about it,
> >> where the hell are these lockers going to stand among all this other
> >> stuff?
> >> Of course, it's been a month or so since I've been in the space, so maybe
> >> some of this is cleared up or organized by now (hahaha yeah right, I will
> >> buy everyone BEER* if you can make me eat those words).
> >> *Not guaranteed to be expensive or good-tasting beer. I'm on a budget.
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