[Noisebridge-discuss] i object to lockers for noisebridge

[Jake]

one problem is that it is a totally unprecedented privatization of space 
at noisebridge, and should be discussed at a meeting in person.

another problem is that it subtracts from the public space at noisebridge 
unnecessarily;  there are plenty of abandoned shelves available for people 
to make use of for storing their stuff.

it would be a big change for noisebridge to have private lockers.

-jake

> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:39 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>
>>    i don't get it. how come shelves with doors (lockers)
>> are a problem? i don't see that has anything to do with
>> privacy or anonymity or anything else other than maybe
>> keeping stuff from falling out. we have member shelves
>> so that people can keep parts of their projects safe
>> from repurposing. the lockers seem to do that.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 04:49 -0800, Jake wrote:
>>> I have stated before and i'll say again that I think that there are plenty
>>> of shelves which are not currently in use, and can be re-assigned by a
>>> team of non-contraversial members in order to clear up shelf spaces.
>>>
>>> I think it has been decided in the past that Noisebridge is not a place
>>> for people to securely store their stuff, and that the most someone can
>>> expect is a shelf upon which they can deposit their items with their name
>>> upon the shelf.  To diverge from this would be fundamental enough that it
>>> would have to be discussed at a meeting, and in the interest of informed
>>> consent, announced as an agenda topic ahead of time so that people could
>>> participate.
>>>
>>> Personally I feel that use of publicly available space at noisebridge for
>>> the private storage of peoples' property is not only a negative use of the
>>> space, but subtracts from the magic of communalism that has been achieved.
>>>
>>> Regarding the decay of civility and reason in threads leading to this, I
>>> remind everyone that our most important rule is BE EXCELLENT TO EACH
>>> OTHER.  This is a rule.  If what you're saying is intended to fuck with
>>> someone, you are BREAKING the ONLY RULE.  It is up to each and every
>>> person to follow that rule.  Do not fuck with the only rule we have.
>>>
>>> And as a reminder, I want to say explicitly, that I feel strongly enough
>>> about the lockers and have observed enough other people expressing similar
>>> feelings about them, that if someone wants to get lockers they should put
>>> that topic on the agenda of the next meeting (by posting so to the list)
>>> so that we can discuss it properly as a group.
>>>
>>> Thank you for reading.  Also, +1 on what Snail says below.
>>> -jake
>>>
>>> Patrick Keys <citizenkeys at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The lockers would be opaque.  I think everybody at Noisebridge values
>>>> their right of anonymity.  Not worrying about other people seeing what's
>>>> on your personal shelf or messing with it seems like a benefit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Snail snailtsunami at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> What do people want to store at noisebridge that they really need to keep
>>> hidden, which can't be stored on a harddrive? That's kind of worrisome.
>>>
>>> Maybe an open, public space is not the best place to keep private,
>>> personal possessions. -- People need to keep their tools and whatknot for
>>> hacking in the space, but need they be SECRET? If you're going to use it
>>> in the space, where it will be seen by everyone, why does it have to be
>>> STORED in secrecy? -- And if it's not going to be used in the space, why
>>> is it there, taking up space in a locker?
>>>
>>> Plus, this is about right to privacy, not anonymity -- a shelf is
>>> anonymous but not private, unless you put your name on your belongings (or
>>> someone dusts for fingerprints and has a copy of yours to match; DNA
>>> TESTS!!). If you don't believe me, just look at the fact that there are
>>> constantly tons of possessions swirling around the space whose owners are
>>> unknown, sometimes resulting to e-mails asking who has borrowed their
>>> stuff, even though everything is in plain view. This is very much not
>>> about valuing peoples anonymity and more about concern that people are
>>> doing secret things in an open space. You won't necessarily reveal
>>> someone's secret identity by stealing their wire cutters or PS2.
>>>
>>> I don't think anyone has a guarantee of privacy at noisebridge -- if you
>>> are there, someone will drop by and look over your shoulder and ask what's
>>> going on, because that's why you are there (to have people talk to you and
>>> get an excuse to talk about your project). Lockers wouldn't really
>>> guarantee privacy unless everyone TRUSTED the person using the locker. We
>>> only have what privacy we do when people are considerate AND trust we are
>>> not doing something unsavory; but if people were concerned someone was
>>> storing something unsavory in a locker, it wouldn't be long before someone
>>> picked the lock or forced it open just to be safe.
>>>
>>> Most importantly, to me, locked lockers would make me feel less safe
>>> because suddenly part of the open space is not open. I feel safe at
>>> noisebridge because EVERYTHING is open (save the bathrooms, for ~15
>>> minutes at a time), and anything bad that could happen to someone or
>>> anything unsafe which would be stored could be found by the community, as
>>> people eventually wade through the piles and piles of junk.
>>>
>>> (To be honest, you're probably guaranteed a good amount of privacy if you
>>> leave something under a pile of junk and people are too APATHETIC to check
>>> -- but it still gives people the option of securing their own surroundings
>>> and safety.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Plus, people tend to leave a lot of crap at the space and never throw it
>>> out, so periodically the locks would just have to be broken so the
>>> contents could be tossed as the lockers just give people a chance to
>>> exercise even more of their packrat tendencies.
>>>
>>>
>>> You know, if anything, I would describe noisebridge as a hole for packrats
>>>> _> maybe giving people the chance to store even MORE things at the space
>>> is the opposite of what the community needs. I feel like half of the space
>>> is already consumed by objects: the members' shelves area, the area behind
>>> those shelves (is that more members' shelves?), the entire wall with the
>>> windows facing Mission St., the full wall of bikes, the construction
>>> things in the kitchen, more shelves in the not-Turing classroom, stuff by
>>> the tea room storing things for the kitchen (because right beside the
>>> kitchen is storing construction things).... Now that I think about it,
>>> where the hell are these lockers going to stand among all this other
>>> stuff?
>>>
>>> Of course, it's been a month or so since I've been in the space, so maybe
>>> some of this is cleared up or organized by now (hahaha yeah right, I will
>>> buy everyone BEER* if you can make me eat those words).
>>>
>>> *Not guaranteed to be expensive or good-tasting beer. I'm on a budget.
>>>
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>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>
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