[Noisebridge-discuss] Are people okay with people sleeping at the Noisebridge space?

[Al Sweigart]

Duncan,

There are people who have a problem with it and it's not fair to
ignore their complaints by trying to get them to shut up.

-Al

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Just Duncan <justduncan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Having not been at the space for some time and definitely not being part of
> the community of people who regularly hack here, you are COMPLETELY out of
> touch with Noisebridge.  THERE IS NO PROBLEM TO RESOLVED.
>
> Noisebridge is dynamic and this thread is either PURE trolling or else, with
> all due respect, you REALLY need to let this go.  Your obsession with this
> now hypothetical "problem" is not useful, implicitly slanders Noisebridge to
> those whose impression of NB is through this email list, and is wasting
> THOUSANDS of hours of people's valuable time the same insidious way that the
> "National Enquirer" does.  Unfortunately, people aren't generally at the
> check-out line when reading this, but more likely at their computers trying
> to work.  The volume of responses on this topic says NOTHING, except that
> people are very passionate about Noisebridge, rules, and respond to
> fear-mongering when hypotheticals are positioned as reality.
>
> Rubin asked you two, simple yes or no questions.  It sounds like your answer
> to them both is NO.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 8:57 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Rubin, I want minimize drama, which is exactly why I'd like people to
>> talk about this and try to resolve it instead of it being a perennial
>> conflict like it's been. Right now it's not about a specific person,
>> which is a perfect time to talk about it. This way it doesn't
>> degenerate into "I like/dislike person X, which is why sleeping at the
>> space is fine/a problem."
>>
>> I don't want to bring it up at a meeting because it'll probably be a
>> long conversation and I didn't want to force everyone to sit through
>> it (or force people to chose between staying at a two hour meeting or
>> going home and being excluded.) Email's great for this kind of
>> discussion: people don't have to immediately respond to everything and
>> only the people who want to participate do.
>>
>> And from the number of people on this thread, people apparently do
>> want to talk about this. A few people are saying "sleeping overnight
>> is not a problem" and others are saying  "even napping is a problem",
>> but the way the issue is, if we shut down any discussion about it,
>> it's essentially giving the sleepers a free pass except for the rare
>> occasions when the Noisebridge-is-not-for-nappers folks are there to
>> wake people up.
>>
>> I want to hear people's reasons why they think napping is okay because
>> I don't think there are any valid reasons (but maybe I'm wrong.) What
>> I don't want to hear is people saying "let's stop talking about it" or
>> "it's not a problem and this discussion should end". There are people
>> who have a problem with it and it's not fair to ignore their
>> complaints by trying to get them to shut up.
>>
>> I'm against napping in the space, but I don't want to get my way
>> because I was able to badger enough people into submission or get a
>> loud enough group on my side. I want to listen to other people and
>> encourage them to speak their mind. It's clear there's no consensus on
>> this, but maybe we can figure out some kind of middle-ground besides
>> people continually bugged about the sleepers and the sleepers
>> continually bugged about being woken up or told to leave.
>>
>> It doesn't need to be resolved ASAP, it just needs to stop being put
>> off. So let's talk about it.
>>
>> -Al
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Just Duncan <justduncan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > AMEN!
>> >
>> > Very well put, Rubin!
>> >
>> > To those whose view of Noisebridge is primarily through the discussion
>> > list,
>> > know that Noisebridge is excellent.
>> >
>> > As someone who is a regular part of the Noisebridge community, people
>> > sleeping here is not a problem.  Culturally, the community here handles
>> > things quite well using thoughtful, situational ethics and is strongly
>> > protective of the space, the community, and each other.  Noisebridge
>> > works
>> > and doesn't need chaperones or self-appointed draconian authoritarians
>> > whose
>> > sole purpose for a visit to Noisebridge is to tell people what to do.
>> > If
>> > people in the space need help, we have the new 311 system on the red
>> > payphone to get assistance and it works brilliantly, when needed.
>> >
>> > Unless Al's answer to Rubin's question is "yes", let's let this thread
>> > die a
>> > drama-less death.
>> >
>> > This thread is in no way relevant to Noisebridge at present.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Rubin Abdi <rubin at starset.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Why are we having an email discussion about this?
>> >>
>> >> Al: Have you been to Noisebridge recently, has someone sleeping in the
>> >> space offended you?
>> >>
>> >> Is there an apparent problem that needs attention ASAP?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Rubin
>> >> rubin at starset.net
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>
>