[Noisebridge-discuss] Turing: Equipment Removed

Gian Pablo Villamil gian.pablo at gmail.com
Tue Feb 28 16:59:20 UTC 2012

Giving massive notice that you're going to be a dick does not excuse being
a dick.

On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 2:22 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:

> I mostly agree as well but at the same time, there was apparently massive
> notice given. I do notice all of the awesome work that Jim has put into the
> placefrom both the classes he teaches as well as the physical work he has
> done in the space.  I am sure we can come up with a better solution than
> putting this equipment on the floor in Turing.
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 11:43 PM, girlgeek <girlgeek at wt.net> wrote:
>>  +1
>> -Claudia
>> On 2/27/2012 9:48 PM, Gian Pablo Villamil wrote:
>> I stand with Jim on this.
>>  His use of the space is, I think, one of the emblematic activities at
>> Noisebridge, and one of the few that has taken place so consistently and
>> effectively. Whatever he thinks he needs to do to make it happen, I support.
>>  There are other far more important things to deal with at Noisebridge
>> than the Turing classroom. I really don't understand the belligerent tone
>> from Tom on this. What does he plan to do with the space once it is
>> "cleaned up"? I know what Jim plans, and I heartily support it.
>>  Give Jim the benefit of the doubt on this. Don't piss him off. We've
>> already lost too many good people.
>>  On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>>>    Please read this. I do not believe this email is drama.
>>> I've tried to articulate a problem and am asking for direct
>>> responses at the least from Ben and Tom.
>>>    Not only do I ask that you read, I ask that you read
>>> thoughtfully.
>>>    How did the drill press and saws get into the dirty
>>> workshop? For that matter, how is it that the dirty workshop
>>> is there? Likewise for the darkroom and the electronics area
>>> with its 'scopes and soldering irons and lots and lots of
>>> wires, semiconductors, passives.... Likewise for the sewing
>>> area with the machines and the bins of material and drawers
>>> of tools and supplies.
>>>    How about the Tastebridge territory with its special
>>> refrigerator and shelves of jars and so on, not to mention
>>> the related kitchen with its shelves and cupboards and so on?
>>>    Put things in member shelves? There are a couple of issues:
>>> * spacebridge stuff occupies a number of shelves. Why?
>>> * member shelves are subject to mismanagement, it's now obvious.
>>>    As to Turing, do you have plans to remove the whiteboard
>>> and/or the electrical conduit?
>>>    Generally, the answers are that people saw opportunity for
>>> making use of some area for some particular purpose. The
>>> discussions preliminary to setting up various areas were as
>>> varied as the areas and people who set them up. None of them
>>> were subject to a meeting's discussion or consensus process or
>>> anything else. Each was do-ocratically established, in some
>>> cases with negotiations with others wrt their interests (e.g.
>>> I negotiated the "library" space with those who'd claimed that
>>> wall for photo display).
>>>    The multiple discussions about classrooms in which I've
>>> participated have noted the need for a classroom area that has
>>> a projector and sound system, similar to the main area, and to
>>> provide an alternative area so that smaller groups aren't stuck
>>> with using the projector and sound system in the main area
>>> (which allows people in the main area freedom from the needs of
>>> a group using the main projector, etc.). Turing makes good sense
>>> as such an alternate area.
>>>    From time to time there have been do-ocratic efforts, both
>>> in the space and on the mailing list, to clean things up and/or
>>> reorganize and/or impress conformance.
>>>    Those that took a positive tone to make improvements, in my
>>> recall, were more successful (especially with respect to
>>> emotional storms on the discuss list) than those that included
>>> a negative proscriptive component.
>>>    Questions that arise in my mind include "why are you focusing
>>> on the turing classroom?" "why are you not focusing on the little
>>> storage and rack closet?" Those are real questions, I'm hoping
>>> for answers. (I've noticed Ben's response re "electrical closet".)
>>>    I've not experienced such negatively oriented interference
>>> in any other development of an area in our space. I'd like to
>>> know why Turing and why now and why in this obnoxious manner.
>>>    My intention is to set up the Turing classroom so that it
>>> supports classes. I have a lot of experience as a classroom
>>> lecturer--something like ten years in accredited schools, with
>>> notable success.
>>>    Note that I intend to continue setting up the Turing
>>> classroom to be a good and useful classroom, and I expect, in
>>> the spirit of do-ocracy and noisebridge's history, that you
>>> will respect my efforts to do so.
>>>    As far as I know, there has been no time when the Turing
>>> classroom didn't work for a meeting or class. Space in that
>>> room has not been at a premium so far, even with the stuff
>>> that's been squirreled in there under tables against the north
>>> wall (much or most of it not related to any building or
>>> improvement that i know of).
>>>    A people reading this may recall my occasional pleas in
>>> Tuesday evening meetings for people to step up and take
>>> ownership of various spaces. A few of you have done so, and
>>> with respect to electricity, when you've asked for electrical
>>> devices, I've tried to help out:
>>> * outlets on the south wall (now buried by shelves)
>>> * large capacity run to the kitchen area
>>> * removing and reorganizing the electrical mess that we
>>>  inherited
>>> * totally rebuilt the guts of the primary three-phase sub-panel
>>> * installed interior entrance lights
>>> * brought three-phase availability in the dirty shop
>>> * all darkroom electricity
>>> * east end lighting improvement
>>> * laser cutter dedicated circuit
>>> * main room ceiling lights and switches
>>> * infrastructure closet lighting and power
>>>    I've given up trying to defend order in the infrastructure
>>> closet, having built all shelves and storage areas to see them
>>> trashed, filled with random stuff, shelving materials removed,
>>> and noisebridge electrical supplies removed to piles, wrecking
>>> the organization I'd worked hard on.
>>>    As long as I'm building this list, I'll add: I was one of
>>> the few who championed improving the floor before we moved in
>>> and I put a lot of hours working on the prep and sanding and
>>> filling and finishing.
>>>    Can you understand that the censorious manner you're taking
>>> to my work to improve the Turing classroom is irritating?
>>>    As I wrote earlier in this email, I have not witnessed such
>>> an approach as you have taken with respect to any other area in
>>> the time we've been either here, at 2169, or at 83C weisse. I
>>> ask again: why are you acting in this way?
>>>    Note I'm not complaining about trying to improve things; I'm
>>> complaining hard about the way you're demanding behavior that
>>> has been actually sanctioned for every other improvement in the
>>> past. (Note also that the build-out policy is that people can
>>> bring and leave their personal tools and supplies needed to do
>>> their work as long as they label their tools and supplies.)
>>>    I expect that you will, at the least, let me continue to
>>> try to improve the Turing classroom by curtailing behavior that
>>> demands foolish conformity and is contradictory to established
>>> Noisebridge norms for improving the space.
>>>    I welcome cleaning and organizing efforts. I have pretty
>>> much given up on trying to rescue or reorganize Noisebridge
>>> supplies such as (expensive) copper wire. When we run out of
>>> wire, I'll not resupply--I've spent enough already. If you've
>>> thrown out the wire that Noisebridge has paid for, please go
>>> to an electrical supply store and replace it.
>>>    I'd like positive support, but i'll gladly take silence.
>>> On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 22:19 -0800, Ben Kochie wrote:
>>> > Jim, storing things in the classroom, while traditional, is still not
>>> > the intended use for that space.  We have been trying to clean up the
>>> > room and make it more habitable and inviting for classes of all kinds.
>>> >  The things you talk about are in their appropriate locations.
>>> >
>>> > Yes, I know you teach classes in there, but that's only a day or two a
>>> > week.  If you want to setup a permanent location for teaching Linux
>>> > serving, please talk to me on Tuesday night.  I'd love to help.
>>> >
>>> > I cleaned out the ewaste and some other garbage from the electrical
>>> > closet.  I have a bit more organizing to do, but there should be more
>>> > than enough room to hold all the electrical spare parts in there.
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 19:02, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >    Do you plan to take the saws and drills out of
>>> > > the dirty workshop? remove the refrigerator from
>>> > > the kitchen area? How about the sewing machines
>>> > > and oscilloscopes?
>>> > >    I'd like to meet you and talk.
>>> > > jim
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 17:41 -0800, Tom wrote:
>>> > >> As I said on the list almost two weeks ago, then announced at last
>>> > >> week's meeting, I have removed the computer/audio equipment and
>>> > >> speakers from Turing, and placed them in the e-waste pile. Please
>>> find
>>> > >> them a better home on your hacker shelf, or somewhere else where
>>> space
>>> > >> is not a premium! If you do so, go ahead and use them for classes in
>>> > >> Turing, but remove them afterwards. If these items end up stored in
>>> > >> Turing again, I intend to remove them permanently.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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> --
> Ronald Cotoni
> Systems Engineer
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