[Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent

Danny O'Brien danny at spesh.com
Sun Oct 21 07:10:44 UTC 2012


On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Mitchel McAllister
<xonimmortal at yahoo.com>wrote:

> It's not about me being kicked out.
>
> It's about nobody asking the question, "Who are we kicking out?" with any
> honesty.
>
> Yes, I've listened to a number of members discussing who should and
> shouldn't be allowed in. They weren't discussing individuals; they were
> discussing *populations*. Entire groups of people being lumped together,
> as if there are no variations or differences within those groups.
>

I'm almost certain that your model of who are members and who are not is
wrong. It's very (deliberately) difficult to ascertain who are members.
Identifying them by means of behaviour would be really hard. "Those who
complain about other classes of people in the space", "those that assert
that only people who pay money should have influence in the space", "those
that assert that only members have influence in the space", or even "those
who don't say thank you to other people doing work", are all really bad
indicators.

For instance, the only person I know who has attempted to throw out
everyone in the space who isn't a member, isn't a member.

d.


>
> Homeless people are discussed as if every single homeless person is a
> thief, drug user, defecating in corners, and panhandling.
>
> People with mental illness are demonized, as if there were no spectrum of
> mental illness or differing conditions, as if even a diagnosis of mild
> depression denotes a propensity for mindless violence against people and
> property.
>
> With these types of all-or-nothing attitudes, I'm surprised
> differently-abled people are allowed in the space.
>
> What's truly amazing is that the people talking this way not only do so
> loudly enough to be heard by most of the people in the space, but also
> never see the incongruity of doing so under a sign that reads "Be excellent
> to each other."
>
> - Reverend Mik
> ------------------------------
> YMMV - a postscript that assures the world that the poster has no
> intention of considering any refutation.
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 10/20/12, Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent
> To: "Mitchel McAllister" <xonimmortal at yahoo.com>
> Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 10:20 PM
>
>
>  Relax. No one is going to kick you out for not being a member. If you
> take ownership of NB it's as good as being a member.
>
> Be a leader. Be a teacher.
>
> On 10/20/2012 10:12 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:
>
>   Well, the discussion right now seems to be about excluding the power
> users. Either we are only allowed to be in the space when there is a public
> event or we are only allowed to be here when there is a member present to
> supervise us.
>
> And it is not passive aggressive to state a fact. I have been called a
> troll for posting to this and other Noisebridge lists.
>
> - Reverend Mik
> ------------------------------
> The greatest crime against humanity is apologizing for doing the right
> thing.
>
> --- On *Sat, 10/20/12, Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com><http://mc/compose?to=ewr@majortek.com>
> * wrote:
>
>
> From: Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com><http://mc/compose?to=ewr@majortek.com>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net<http://mc/compose?to=noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net>
> Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 9:44 PM
>
>  You've made some excellent points but your last comment was passive
> aggressive.
>
> I am not a member because I can not afford to be one. If I had $80 a
> month, I would gladly give it. However, being a Power User does not exclude
> me from taking on the role of Member.
>
> Noisebridge does not have leadership. This is a Do-ocracy.
>
> If you see a problem, fix it. Use the materials available. Improvise. This
> is the "Maker" mantra. Credit is not due to those that perform good deeds.
> No one is looked upon with a higher gratitude because they help others.
>
> Noisebridge is altruism.
>
> If someone wants to paint and there are haters, fuck them. If someone
> wants to use the kitchen and there are haters, fuck them. If someone is
> giving false information, intervene. Give tours when needed.
>
> You love Noisebridge, right? Take ownership.
>
>
> On 10/20/2012 09:03 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:
>
>   I've been sharing what's being discussed by a few regulars in the
> space, or as Danny called us once, "power users".
>
> Understand that these are people who regularly chip in to clean up or get
> things put into a semblence of order (especially after events). We wash
> dishes, we take the trash out, we bring the bins back in, we sweep the
> floors... We try to not make waves, we try to help out when we can. And
> right now, a couple of us have been assisting Cliff in painting the space.
>
> Yet, a few minutes or an hour after we do things like this, someone will
> stomp through the space, talking loudly about how "those people" need to be
> kicked out because "those people" never do a damned thing around the space.
>
> Most of the people jumping in to fix computers or other gadgets brought in
> by visitors in the past two months have been "power users". Throughout the
> day, evening, and night, there are often times where there are no members
> present - no members to welcome newcomers, no members to give visitors
> tours.
>
> Some of the other "power users" feel that they can't come to the meetings
> to discuss things that are going on. They feel that they aren't allowed to
> speak up, because they're not members. They feel they shouldn't "bother"
> members by joining conversations.
>
> And I have heard several people giving out incorrect or misleading
> information on how to become a member. "You have to collaborate on a couple
> projects with real members before you're allowed to put in an application,"
> has been one I've heard several times.
>
> The amount of pure shit that happens when there are no members present, or
> when members are sequestered off by themselves, is alarming. But if members
> don't approach visitors or "power users" and actively solicit feedback, get
> involved in discussions, or at least try to get to know them, it will
> continue, and probably get worse.
>
> Yes, I know, I am considered a troll on the discussion list. And because I
> am a troll, nothing I have said has any relevance or value. After all, it's
> easier to dismiss me as a troll than actually consider any points I may
> have made.
>
> - Reverend Mik
> ------------------------------
> It is impossible to wage war or commit violence, unless you first prove
> the other party is less human than you are. - Shane Vassad
>
>
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