[Noisebridge-discuss] Two working surveillance cameras, but no functional doorbell?

Fri Oct 26 01:33:37 UTC 2012

Yes I partly misunderstood, I though that one of the cameras is also pointing in the space. Answers in the text, please note that I really do not like the criticize if I do not think that I can help to find another alternative. Sometimes however when I see things going the way which I believe is not a beneficial one I speak up even without having alternative solution hoping that people notice and hopefully come up with some on their behalf.

Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck

biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker

http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org

"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

________________________________
 From: Josh Juran <jjuran at gmail.com>
To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Noisebridge <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>; Jake <jake at spaz.org> 
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Two working surveillance cameras, but no functional doorbell?

On Oct 25, 2012, at 6:10 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck wrote:

> Is it really a plan to have surveillance cameras in front of the place/in the place?

I dispute the notion that these are "surveillance" cameras.  It's no different than peeking out the fisheye lens in your front door.

The cameras monitor one location -- the spot in front of the gate.  They don't record anything.  The feeds are viewable only from within Noisebridge.

*** OK understood, so instead for a "voice recognition" as used before we go visual now and keep the feed it "within the space". Sounds OK to me.

> I have seen what have happened in UK and to a lesser degree in Ireland.

I'm going to suggest that Godwin's Law applies here.

*** I have read a bit about the Law and I'm not sure what do you mean. Especially in UK nearly everything was monitored, still the level and type of crime there was just unbelievable. 

> It may seem as a good idea to "monitor everything" but I think that in a long term in most of the cases it is a way to the hell.

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt.  Also, the sky is falling.

*** Again not sure what you mean, social solutions to community problems with a hint of technology sounds better to me than mostly technical ones. 

> I'm "physically away" not frequenting the place for last two years (unfortunately) but if I can express my opinion, if the first thing which I see when I come to Noisebridge, especially as a "new potential member" is a security camera than that is a very, very bad signal. I would rather like to see some codes system on the doors or keys etc. rather than "we are watching you!"

If you loiter around by the gate for hours at a time, then yes, I suppose we are watching you.

We have a code system on the door.  Newcomers generally don't have codes, so they ring the doorbell -- but so can anyone else.  How are we supposed to know if we should unlock the gate?

*** I was around when the gate was either open for public events completely or when you ring the doorbell, somebody opened the doors (electronically) and most of the time someone later on greeted the people, giving more time to new comers, preferably tour if possible. It was a great way but yes time consuming. I understand that more people may be coming to the space I wonder what is the ratio of the ones who are asked not to come and trying to get in, that ones are the only ones which are actually true subjects to the camera, right? The rest, new comers etc should be greeted anyway, agreed?

> I hope that the cameras are just a very temporary matter, I know that many people were and still are opposed to monitoring the place and I just personally really dislike such approach.

I'm sorry you don't like it, but I think you're confusing having a camera covering *just the gate* versus full-scale monitoring of the Noisebridge space itself.

*** Yes I misunderstood this part.

> Please note that I appreciate the effort which someone put in to make even this solution which I do not like happen. I believe that decision like installing surveillance cameras in the place or by the entrance permanently/long term should go through consensus.

I expect that anyone who seriously has an issue with it will bring it up at a Tuesday night meeting, or at least the discussion list.  The absence of this indicates a de facto consensus.

*** We will see how it goes, I comment but decision like this is on the people who are physically using the place at the moment I believe.

> What do you think?

I wish you would trust those of us who are trying to secure Noisebridge from thieves and others who are unwelcome.  Or failing that, at least suggest an alternative approach.

*** I have quite a big trust in many members of Noisebridge, especially who I met in person and I know them but also I believe in to quite a lot of people who I met just through "email communication". On the other hand I have seen quite a lot around the world and there are things which I support and some which I do not. Even when I'm not present at moment I certainly hope to be around in the future, even if I do not come back any time soon, still I would try to help even from distance to the community to go in the direction which I believe is "good". It may be sometimes off the track and I may be dis attached a bit but there are things which are general enough for communities which I think I can help with.

*** Concerning alternative approach that is a good one. I think that having Noisebridge members (paying or not paying doesn't really matter) around most of the time is the way how to unsure that the place will be operating as the community desires. If these people are not around and some other folk is, it is highly unlikely that they will respect norms which they either do not like or do not know. So the question is how to make the place welcoming for members to come more often and also some of  them at certain times when we need someone like that to be around. The answer is of course complicated and no answer at all but well building the community, having more cool events, keep the social spirit and interactions going and yes some technology to help with that. When I was around I tried with several others to keep the place organized and clean, which I believe new comers notice consciously or unconsciously and it helps to behave in a more "social
 pattern" also preparing various foods and beverages together, sharing it later on helps to bring a community together in a great way, this I found out to be true in general no matter where I go. So that was my take. 

Josh

*** Anyway best of luck, I really hope that things will go better. When I was leaving I felt partly like in a fairy tail, there were close to non thefts, minimum of people who were troubling the place and in general the place was doing really well I feel, with the exception of budget, that was bit bad.

*** Sincerely,

FA
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