[Noisebridge-discuss] Asked to leave: Tony Longshanks & Veronica

[Carl]

Thanks Danny and others for the additional info.

I wasn't previously aware of the emails Tony sent, and I understand why some wouldn't want him around now.  I hope that he can work on improving his communications and try to get along better with people here.  He used to be a valuable contributor to the community with his work on the Zip Zine in the past, so it's too bad things have turned out so unexcellently.

-Carl


On Jun 30, 2013, at 8:17 PM, Danny O'Brien wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 02:50:05PM -0700, Carl wrote:
>>   Hi Tom,
>>   I understand that Tony having been trapped in the closet was a while ago,
>>   and despite that he shouldn't have been there, I'm sure he didn't intend
>>   to become trapped.  Unless he's been a repeat offender, shouldn't he at
>>   least be given a second chance, as he's likely learned his lesson?
> 
> So we had a discussion about this at a meeting I attended; there wasn't
> a formal consensus that he should be banned, but there was a widely held
> eyes-wide amazement that he came back with no apparent attempt at
> restitution or regret. 
> 
>>   What I would like to know is:  Was it previously consensed on at a meeting
>>   that he should be banned from the space?  And if not, is this your main or
>>   only real argument for telling him never to come back?  What authority do
>>   you have for telling him this, as opposed to simply telling him to leave
>>   and come back to a meeting to discuss this, which is the usual procedure?
>>    As far as I recall, no one has suggested Tony has ever been a threat to
>>   anyone in the space, so I would like to know more about why people are
>>   insisting that he be banned.
> 
> Tom doesn't have anything apart from the universal do-acratic authority
> to ask Tony to leave forever. You can ask people to do anything at
> Noisebridge; but if someone asks to leave, they can still come back to
> the meeting. My guess is that Tom will be criticised for overreaching,
> and then we will move on to a wider WTF with Tony.
> 
> Personally, I feel Tony *should* leave permanently, or at least a long
> while. There's basically a bunch of things that count to me as an
> existential threat against Noisebridge, and one of them is messing with
> the rest of the building in which we reside. Our landlord is great, but
> not infinitely patient. 
> 
> The history of asking people to leave Noisebridge is when people do
> something that prompts widespread disapproval and then exhibit a
> demonstrable inability to self-correct. I've now been witness to several
> situations where Tony has done something mildly problematic, been
> criticised, and responded with nuclear-force denial. I think he *does*
> correct, in the sense that he doesn't do the same thing again, but when
> you connect that behaviour with something that was a definite no-no
> *and* could have ended much much worse, My patience is
> pretty much at end.
> 
> d.
> 
>>   I am just trying to find out more about this issue.
>>   Thanks
>>   -Carl
>>   (I cannot currently post to the discuss list. Feel free to CC your reply
>>   to the list if you wish to do so.)
>>   On Jun 29, 2013, at 5:00 AM,
>>   noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net wrote:
>> 
>>     From: Tom Lowenthal <me at tomlowenthal.com>
>>     Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Asked to leave: Tony Longshanks &
>>     Veronica
>>     Date: June 28, 2013 10:57:44 PM PDT
>>     To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> 
>>     This evening, I asked two people to leave Noisebridge.
>> 
>>     I asked Tony Longshanks LeTigre to leave and never come back. I did so
>>     because of the events leading up to him being trapped in the closet
>>     behind the elevator and breaking out through the drywall. During our
>>     discussion he affirmatively stated that he was in that space because
>>     he was storing items there. I told him that this was unacceptable.
>> 
>>     I asked Veronica to and not to return unless she wanted to discuss our
>>     disagreement at a meeting. Our disagreement centered around leaving
>>     food at Noisebridge, and one's obligations with respect to ensuring
>>     that everything is cleared up afterwards. Veronica took issue with my
>>     tone.
>> 
>>     I also had a discussion with Jim, who had brought the food which
>>     prompted my conversation with Veronica. He asserted that he always
>>     ensured that food he brings is cleared up. His response to my request
>>     to clean up was combative, but he left immediately.
> 
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