[Noisebridge-discuss] happy feminist film night: Hayao Miyazaki?

[rachel lyra hospodar]

Dearest adrian,

In the future if you wish for your emails to be kept private you might want
to state so. I generally am not interested in private debate. It turns out
that publicly discussing feminism subjects women to lots of private verbal
abuse, and so often when feminism is the topic of conversation, I like many
women will take pains to
-keep the conversation in a safer, more public space
-keep the conversation on topic.

I have a great many thoughts on my own personal growth and development. The
topic of the conversation at hand is not me, but feminism. I am willing to
discuss my opinions of feminism, publicly.

When I become interested in having a discussion with you about my personal
growth outside of feminism, I will let you know.

In the meanwhile, if you are interested in engaging with me further, i'd
like to ask you to first take some time to think about the divisions
between public and private space in the digital world, the ways in which
men and women relate differently to private vs public space, and the
nonconsent culture that makes you feel justified on insisting on private
communication in response to public discussions on hotbutton topics.

R.
On Jul 29, 2013 3:26 PM, "Adrian Chadd" <adrian.chadd at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 29 July 2013 15:18, rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (I am re-forwarding to list, in the hopes of keeping public discussion
> > public. I'm not in this discussion to get feminist troll jollies, or to
> do
> > pro bono one-on-one lessons in feminist thought. I'm seeking to have
> public
> > culturehacking discussions about issues that are clearly important to
> many
> > members of the NB community.)
>
> .. and I would've at least liked you to ask if you could have
> forwarded the response public. I would've said yes. Oh well, with that
> in mind..
>
> >
> > Your question seems to me to presuppose a parity in this discussion - ie,
> > that in a discussion about feminism, the opinions of all should be
> weighted
> > equally.
>
> My question was actually not about feminimsm. My question was about
> your particular open-ness to change your views on a variety of topics.
>
> And just so people don't misunderstand me, I'll re-quote my question
> in-line:
>
> ===
>
> This begs a question, if only to see what it's like from your perspective.
>
> I completely agree with your "are you willing to modify your position"
> outlook. But does this also mean you're willing to modify your own
> ideals, morals and opinions? Which ones would you hold steadfastly to,
> even in the face of evidence?
>
> I tend to get some very uncomfortable silences when I ask people this
> as they tend to assume I'm trolling rather than seeing if they're
> truly as open to adapting to a changing world and accepting their own
> shortcomings as they expect others to be. Hence, I'm curious.
>
> ===
>
> Nowhere here did I once mention "feminimsm." Again, with that said..
>
> > I believe that in a discussion about feminist goals, women are the de
> facto
> > experts. I do not expect blind abasement to my opinions in all matters.
> I do
> > expect that my opinion of [*what women ought to do* in order to try and
> be
> > less oppressed] is more valid than that of a not-woman.
>
> *nod*
>
> > I further often hear similar sentiments to this email that to me,
> overall,
> > sound like 'why do *you* get to have prime number one opinion?! Unfair!'
> > Which seems to indicate a belief that I would hold (or have held) the
> same
> > stance WRT some other discussion that is not supposed to be centered on
> what
> > I think and feel. I change my beliefs all the time, based on evidence I
> am
> > constantly gathering from the world around me. I listen really well to
> the
> > opinions of others, actually. After all, part of how they train you to
> be a
> > woman in this society is to make sure you listen more and speak less. We
> are
> > experts at hearing how your opinions center in your self. We are the
> half of
> > society that is trained to center in others, to listen, support, and
> learn
> > passively. We must undo that training and if you want to help then google
> > around 'how to be a good ally'. I promise it starts and ends with
> listening,
> > and has f*ckall to do with you worrying about my personal growth. Worry
> > about your own.
> >
> > I only started learning the language of feminism recently, to describe
> > patterns I have empirically observed in a way that is more systematized,
> > less easily dismissed. Ultimately, feminism is centered on women, what
> they
> > think, feel, and want. It's not about anything except the collaborative
> > opinion of a certain group of people.
> >
> > Which seems to be the main sticking point for lots of folks.
> >
> > I invite you to consider that this novel feeling is in fact a reversal
> of an
> > invisible, insidious, and very strong status quo.
>
> Thank you for your response.
>
>
>
> -adrian
>
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