[Noisebridge-discuss] door "security": culture, not policy.

Sat Mar 23 03:58:02 UTC 2013

Here's the elephant in the room: the solution that lets anybody in, doesn't require human interaction for every single visitor, doesn't turn people who just want to work into border guards, minimizes risk of theft, and provides accountability and swift identification of problems.

Video surveillance in the space.

On Mar 22, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Sai <noisebridge at saizai.com> wrote:

> So are there any criteria you can articulate for when to not let
> someone into the building?
> 
> If not, I suggest giving up on that idea and making it about
> humanization. IMO it's a strategy much more likely to be effective
> than "do they look suspicious on the grainy street cam" pseudostrategy
> which is in place now.
> 
> - Sai
> 
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>> i'm just saying that the act of letting people into the building is a big
>> deal and people should take responsibility for it and use their best
>> judgement.
>> 
>> the alternative is not working.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 22 Mar 2013, Sai wrote:
>> 
>>> So… practical question.
>>> 
>>> I can see that, if you're intending to prevent someone from entering,
>>> you should do so at the street. However… that doesn't really seem to
>>> be in the cards here.
>>> 
>>> If someone wants in to NB, they can probably get in, by waiting for
>>> someone to use the door, asking someone else to let them in, etc etc.
>>> AFAICT the point of the "greet at door" bit is not to turn people
>>> away, but to humanize the space, make sure new people get introduced,
>>> have others aware of who's walking around, that sort of thing.
>>> 
>>> You seem to be suggesting otherwise, so: could you please suggest
>>> guidelines for who you think should be refused entrance, that can be
>>> done via a shitty videophone? E.g. what questions must someone be able
>>> to answer over intercom? Must they be recognized by someone in the
>>> space? Must they not look some particular way?
>>> 
>>> I'd bet that you can't. (Possibly with the exception of uniformed
>>> police or obvious Secret Service?)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Unless I'm wrong with that bet, I'd suggest we own up to the fact that
>>> what's really on the table is face-to-face interaction in the space,
>>> with the (extremely rare) possibility of ejecting someone who is there
>>> — and not, really, turning people away at the gate.
>>> 
>>> The two call for fairly different responses. Moving the lock to the
>>> top door would help for the humanize version. A better camera and a
>>> door way light would help for at-the-gate version.
>>> 
>>> - Sai
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:03 AM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> here we go again...
>>>> 
>>>> also i'll remind everyone that as tenants of 2169 mission it is our
>>>> responsibility to not allow anyone into the building (past the main gate)
>>>> who we are not allowing into the third floor.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2012-February/028220.html
>>>> 
>>>> [Noisebridge-discuss] Upstairs door latch mechanism?
>>>> Jake jake at spaz.org
>>>> Fri Feb 10 02:34:39 PST 2012
>>>> 
>>>> I guess a bunch of people have been talking about latching or locking the
>>>> upstairs door.
>>>> 
>>>> Are you people crazy?  Don't you realize that by the time someone is
>>>> upstairs they feel as though they are practically inside the space
>>>> already?
>>>> 
>>>> If you can't turn someone away at the sidewalk, and they get to the top
>>>> of
>>>> the stairs, it is only going to make them angry if you refuse to let them
>>>> in.  It is going to create more conflict, not less, especially if you use
>>>> the smarmy little porthole to shield yourself while refusing to let
>>>> someone in while someone else comes up behind you and second-guesses your
>>>> decision in front of the person.
>>>> 
>>>> have you ever been at a teller window (post office for example) where the
>>>> clerk, who is telling you NO you can't have what you came here for, is
>>>> isolated behind a 2" thick piece of lexan with a tiny little breathing
>>>> hole where you're supposed to talk and listen through?  Do you remember
>>>> feeling hostility toward that person and wondering what you would do if
>>>> you could reach through the little hole and strangle them?
>>>> 
>>>> well that's whats going to happen to you if you try to keep people out at
>>>> the top of the stairs, because eventually someone is going to open the
>>>> door and that person is going to come in anyway, and be pissed at you.
>>>> 
>>>> We need to focus on bouncing people at the sidewalk door.  If you are
>>>> having trouble understanding this concept, please ask some people whose
>>>> opinion you trust before continuing with this idea of locking the
>>>> upstairs
>>>> door.
>>>> 
>>>> sincerely,
>>>> -jake
>>>> 
>>>> Casey Callendrello wrote (Thu Feb 9 22:58:35 PST 2012):
>>>> 
>>>> Hi there.
>>>> The upstairs door is already keyed with the A-key. However, the latch
>>>> mechanism has been removed. Does anyone know where it is?
>>>> 
>>>> If not, I'll try to order a new one. The crash bar is a "Von Duprin 44".
>>>> However, these parts are surprisingly expensive and hard to track down.
>>>> 
>>>> --c.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Casey Callendrello wrote:
>>>> Adding a lock to the upstairs door is quite doable. I've looked in to
>>>> this before. There are a few things that need to be done:
>>>> 
>>>> 1) Some boring locksmithy stuff of getting some locks re-keyed
>>>> 2) Re-building the elevator lobby door. Not too hard
>>>> 3) Electronic strikes for both doors
>>>> 4) Pin pads for both doors
>>>> 
>>>> 1 and 2 are easy. 3 and 4 are also pretty simple, but will take some
>>>> proper effort.
>>>> 
>>>> --Casey
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/21/13 11:34 AM, Martin Bogomolni wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> In changing the problem I'm aligned with Rachel.  Move the lock from
>>>>> -downstairs- to the upstairs door.   Also move the pin pad to the
>>>>> upstairs door.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For our mobility-impaired members, and people who come on bikes, do
>>>>> the same with an alternate wide door at the top landing where the
>>>>> elevator is.   (Wall up the side door, make a sure door in front of
>>>>> the elevator.   It's relatively easy to frame it up and put in a
>>>>> prehung door.   Costs are pretty controlled for this.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -M
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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