[Noisebridge-discuss] anti-anonymity proposals

jim jim at systemateka.com
Sat Nov 16 04:36:30 UTC 2013

JS: I'll try not to belabor my defense of my 
beliefs. My comments interspersed below. 

On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 15:27 -0800, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:
> Jesus fucking Christ.
> Noisebridge is dead.
> Jim, you ... I don't even. There are so many problems with what you
> have written that I honestly believe you need to hire someone to help
> you grok what the fuck. Because the amount of education you need about
> what the experiences of others are like, about what a 'community'
> might BE or BE FOR or WHO might want to use it FOR WHAT or HOW....
> and the idea that you could tell someone else not to talk to the
> community so THEY don't feel disempowered is deeply structurally
> flawed.... that I just don't even.
JS: Yes, I know you don't. I suspect you and perhaps 
others have misconstrued what I wrote. I'm for 
personal strength first, and from that comes a 
strong community. My view is that people have run 
to the community prematurely, to their own detriment. 
> I came to Noisebridge and found a huge community of technically
> engaged wonderful hacker friends who bent over backwards to teach me
> how to work in hardware, with zero social expectations or assholery.
JS: me, too. 

> That place is gone.
JS: I'm not sure, there are lots of very fine 
people still at noisebridge. 

> Perhaps 2169 will continue but a community where the old hands present
> think assault should be dealt with in isolation, 
JS: assault should not be dealt with in isolation. 

> and the old hands absent feel entitled to weigh in against reform
> measures aimed at REDUCING INCIDENCES OF ASSAULT without constructive
> input, is no place I want to support.
JS: I'm against formality in general; I'm for 
collaboration, affection, acceptance, mutual 
support; I think having policies is a dangerous 
practice, partly because the fact of the policy 
substitutes for understanding and action 
appropriate to situations, partly because the 
policy may, unfortunately, be seen as a 
substitute for one's own action and one's own 
sense of self-worth. 

> R.
> On Nov 15, 2013 2:29 PM, "Snail" <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
>         On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:13 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com>
>         wrote:
>                     As to females being harassed, for cases of
>                 crude coppings of feels, I dislike taht female
>                 turning to the community for support; I would
>                 eagerly defend any female who hauled off and
>                 slugged whoever copped a feel or to go get some
>                 friends and return to verbally educate the
>                 offender: it's dis-empowering to perceive one's
>                 self as a victim and turn to a community for
>                 support for what is an individual incident.
>         Whoa - whoa whoa whoa - whoaaaaa...
>         Time out - did you really just say that women who get groped
>         ("cases of crude coppings of feels") should not ask the
>         community to help them out? And you believe that it's
>         disempowering somehow??
>         And that people should just punch people or deal with it on
>         their own? Is this really what you're suggesting?
>                     There will be no way fully to suppress such
>                 actions taken by horney and inconsiderate
>                 personages, policies and rules and committee
>                 resolutions aside (far, far aside, I hope).
>         I can't even. Here's a good way to suppress the actions of
>         "horney" or inconsiderate people: never let them back in
>         Noisebridge because that's a terrible excuse for their
>         actions!
>                     Please ask yourself if you are prone to
>                 express yourself when you believe you have the
>                 "high ground" and can properly scold others. I.e.,
>                 are you living too much with anger?
>         With the rage of a thousand burning stars. 
>         TO EVERYONE ELSE READING THIS - There are lots of people in
>         the community at large who will help you out if someone is
>         creeping on you or worse, whether you are "taht females" or
>         just a plain ol' human being! Don't let what Jim says dissuade
>         you from reporting harassment or assault or pointing out
>         creepers! This is not an opinion everyone here carries. Please
>         don't ever feel like it's your fault or that you're required
>         to punch people - it's a valid and rational response to remove
>         yourself from a dangerous situation and try to sort things out
>         later from a safe place rather than confront your
>         harasser/assaulter. If someone is creeping on you, they are
>         pretty much always creeping on OTHERS, too, so you are not
>         alone or stuck in some isolated personal incident! And as a
>         community we can try to make Noisebridge a safer place for
>         everyone.
>         Also, women really appreciate being called women and not
>         "females". Do you go around saying "the males" when referring
>         to men? Probably not.
>         Angry forever,
>         Snail
>         -- 
>         -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
>         ............. _ at y
>         http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
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>         Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss

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