[Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update

[Praveen Sinha]

I actually am too modest to talk about such things publicly (and for other
reason) :-D


On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm sure Praveen is just too modest to talk about how he volunteers up his
> couch and kitchen and lets people use his apartment as a homeless shelter.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
>
>> Mr Rodgers wouldn't put these people up in a space that doesn't belong to
>> him.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <RANT>
>>> I got a couple of emails off-list questioning my judgment on this, so I
>>> thought I would follow up with some other thoughts I had...
>>>
>>> The other night, I was walking back from consensus in the cold
>>> downpouring rain.  I could see my breath and I was soaked.  I know for east
>>> coasters, this mild california weather is nothing, but the fact is, SF
>>> get's COLD.  It was COLD and WET.  I saw at least one person huddling in a
>>> corner trying to stay dry.  I looked at him and remembered the times when I
>>> was that cold and hungry and alone -- I was miserable, it was the worst
>>> lonliest feeling in the world, and the only thing I wanted was to be in a
>>> warm place.
>>>
>>> About a year and half ago I saw an email to nb-discuss from a young
>>> woman who had come to SF recently and had no place to go for the night, and
>>> she was escorted out in the middle of the night after being woken up from
>>> her sleep.  She related that she was terrified of being out in the streets
>>> alone at night in the mission.  I'll happily take the flak from many
>>> noisebridgers to help someone stay warm on a cold rainy night.  To me,
>>> being human is about finding ways to bend the rules and share resources for
>>> human benefit.
>>>
>>> You all are right, NB is not a homeless shelter.  I don't have all the
>>> answers.  Maybe all of you are totally in the right that we should be
>>> locking down.  We aren't equipped for it.  I'm not even necessarily arguing
>>> on these points.  What I am saying is that people at noisebridge are
>>> PEOPLE.  Everyone has feelings, everyone has needs, everyone needs to be
>>> approach with, as James Sundquist just said - with dignity and conversation
>>> and benefit of the doubt, and not dehumanized and stereotyped.  WHAT WOULD
>>> MR ROGERS DO.
>>>
>>> Or more importantly, how do we give everyone SLACK,
>>>
>>> </RANT>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Awww thanks!!!  I actually think the both of you are quite adorable too!
>>>>
>>>> What I think will take a longer time to write up than I have at the
>>>> moment.  I'll save that for a future post.
>>>>
>>>> In so far as the lease:  I really don't think it's as big as a
>>>> bogeyperson as people are worrying about.  That's not to say we should have
>>>> people living in elevator shafts...
>>>>
>>>> But more than that, I do think we should be focused on building
>>>> positive consensus:  if we focus too much on rigid rules and not enough on
>>>> the people, then we just get bunch of miserable people:  as much as we wish
>>>> that legal systems could be like code and we could get it debugged and
>>>> working like a machine, it's just not that way.  We are people not machines.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's pretty clear that Praveen either doesn't care or can't conceive
>>>>> of any repercussions to Noisebridge as a result of his actions.
>>>>>
>>>>> People doing drugs at the space?  Fine.
>>>>> People offering drugs at the space?  Also fine.
>>>>> People sleeping at the space?  Not just fine, Praveen will actually
>>>>> give you an invitation.
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea that Noisebridge might actually lose its lease is just not
>>>>> there.  The idea that there might be people adversely affected is not
>>>>> there.  There's not even a balancing of good versus bad there -- Praveen
>>>>> thinks it's good, everyone who thinks its bad must be wrong and unexcellent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Blah blah I got caught living at the space and so i will ramble
>>>>>> enough and act confused about how this violates and endangers NB's lease,
>>>>>> people will get distracted discussing hypotheticals about a live-in docent.
>>>>>> Blah blah. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Praveen, you're adorable, but no, no living at the space. The lease
>>>>>> agreement should be the end of the story. Go start another space if you
>>>>>> want a hacker space with a lease that allows for a live-in person. Good
>>>>>> luck with that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the record, I wouldn't consider someone for the position who had
>>>>>> already pointedly ignored the community rules, based solidly on the
>>>>>> agreement with the landlord that NO ONE LIVES IN THE SPACE.
>>>>>>  On Apr 2, 2014 8:16 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi to all,
>>>>>>> Just shortly about my involvement, I'm repeating my self but well
>>>>>>> looks like the old story is being loved to come out again :-) It is not
>>>>>>> directly connected to the current cooking in the space, so skip it if you
>>>>>>> are just sorting out this issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tastebridge was great fun and it was more or less keeping the back
>>>>>>> of the Noisebridge (bathrooms and kitchen) operational and because I like
>>>>>>> things clean and organized it was in general taken as a positive direction.
>>>>>>> Sometimes we had a screw ups like over fermented bottles of kombucha
>>>>>>> spraying people around, some stuff not cleaned on time and fridges having
>>>>>>> out of day items. However in general it was kept well, we did catering for
>>>>>>> 5 min of fame events, member meetings, underground markets etc. promoting
>>>>>>> our activities from that and getting also part of our budget.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Al's announcement that I'm moving out with my name in the subject
>>>>>>> was a good show of how not to do stuff in that time in the community,
>>>>>>> caused a lots of drama and Al was shouted at a lot. The main reason was
>>>>>>> because he did not give me time and space to talk about that, especially
>>>>>>> not with mediators or few members being present from both yes and no sides.
>>>>>>> This was really pity I think because I would definitely not endanger my
>>>>>>> position in the community with such a fopa especially when I had another
>>>>>>> options, which I had. So in another words big drama which could be sorted
>>>>>>> quite quietly. To be absolutely honest it was maybe better that it become a
>>>>>>> big issue, because I feel now much more with the people who are targeted in
>>>>>>> a similar manner for variety of actions even when things can be sorted in a
>>>>>>> reasonable way. Public mop. However again in that time, the resolution was
>>>>>>> found very quickly and I could continue with my activities without any
>>>>>>> issues, so concerning the work no harm done, for the integrity of the
>>>>>>> Noisebridge community not the best. Now after the years with keeping an eye
>>>>>>> on the activities in the space from around the world through the discuss
>>>>>>> and talking to friends I have still the feeling that the main target by Al
>>>>>>> was actually me not directly my activities, that is at least my opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After being active in many hackerspaces around the world I think
>>>>>>> that having separate living quarters/areas for people involved in community
>>>>>>> places is a good idea and I vote for that, really looking forward to help
>>>>>>> out the build up of by Mitch promoting hacker residency programs. If people
>>>>>>> live in their working places it gets often too intensive, they become too
>>>>>>> obsessive and if someone doesn't like someone else it is blocking the
>>>>>>> energies/flow in the place. So I'm now more for separate accommodation and
>>>>>>> living arrangements seems to me neater.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This paragraph you my skip it is too long for many just quick
>>>>>>> personal explanation :-) Concerning my sleeping/living in the place, it
>>>>>>> intensified especially at the end of my stay in SF when I have found out
>>>>>>> that I have to sort out with the immigration my stay because when I entered
>>>>>>> the USA the last time they did not give me the stamp on the border and when
>>>>>>> I left the time before they did not signed me off, so it looked like that
>>>>>>> I'm in the states nearly for 2 years which is not exactly what my PhD. visa
>>>>>>> for 6 months would allow. If I had to leave immediately the states I would
>>>>>>> have to train a new brewer in Three Stone Hearth Kitchen where I was a
>>>>>>> master brewer and that would be an issue, because at least month or so
>>>>>>> should be needed. So when I realized what issues I'm potentially facing I
>>>>>>> had around one week or 10 days more or less to sort that out, with possibly
>>>>>>> leaving the place immediately after. That cause way more than 16 hours
>>>>>>> working days and me staying in he place. I've stayed in the place in the
>>>>>>> months before over the night, which sometimes meant finishing up around 3
>>>>>>> am brewing class and getting up before 7 am to leave for Berkeley to brew.
>>>>>>> However majority of the time, and that means 5-6 days per week I was
>>>>>>> happily sleeping somewhere close to the beach, in the park, out of the
>>>>>>> town, with friends couch surfing, name it. That I liked, staying at
>>>>>>> Noisebridge over the night was kind of must and I tried o avoid it both
>>>>>>> because of potential troubles and not doing me well. Believe it or not I do
>>>>>>> not like to overstep if I know that the community doesn't approve of that
>>>>>>> in general, but well in this case I did and I appologised. However as I
>>>>>>> said especially at the period when I had to sort out my issues with the
>>>>>>> immigration I was staying around more and that was not good for anyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well I think that would be enough for recapitulation, have a good
>>>>>>> time and I hope you manage to keep the place running nice and open, based
>>>>>>> on consensus with active community showing the direction. It was possible
>>>>>>> before, it can be done again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
>>>>>>> Gandhi
>>>>>>>    On Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:26 AM, daravinne <
>>>>>>> daravinne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>   when i first started doing 5mof a few years ago, part of the
>>>>>>> ritual was getting there from work and taking a nap in a comfy chair before
>>>>>>> i started doing event-related stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> frantisek was one of the first people i ever encountered at the
>>>>>>> space and his implementation of tastebridge was focused and well-run.  i
>>>>>>> didn't really see it as a problem that he was living at the space, since i
>>>>>>> noticed that after he was ejected, less productive and helpful people
>>>>>>> replaced him, and the overall cleanliness and good working order of the
>>>>>>> space declined. him being there most of the time was a great benefit to the
>>>>>>> space, because he did genuinely care about the state of the space he was
>>>>>>> using and made up his use of resources by providing the intangible service
>>>>>>> of near-constant management.  i do read all his emails, and i agree with
>>>>>>> praveen that his insights are valuable, possibly more so than other people
>>>>>>> who are currently overseas and continue to post to the list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Some of the best nb hackers have slept at nb once or twice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nb has only ITSELF to blame. When you open the door to all comers,
>>>>>>> don't be shocked at their behavior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>>>>> From: "Ceren Ercen" <ceren at ercen.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Cc: "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>; "NoiseBridge
>>>>>>> Discuss" <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>>>>>> Sent: 4/2/2014 8:53:41 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seriously.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frantisek, you covertly squatted in the NB space, and got all
>>>>>>> apology-tastic when you got caught.
>>>>>>> You should have the sense and humility to recuse yourself from all
>>>>>>> topics that are addressing the serious problem of  "how do we stop people
>>>>>>> from trying to live in the space".  Even if it's your pet "I like to
>>>>>>> ferment things" workspace.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Somehow, you don't have the clue or grace to back the fuck off. So I
>>>>>>> will suggest it for you. Back away from this thread, no one read your
>>>>>>> rambling email. If you're distressed, consider that it's actions like YOURS
>>>>>>> that made it impossible for Noisebridge to have a pleasantly luxurious
>>>>>>> kitchen. Great job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Ceren
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <
>>>>>>> jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reminder: biotechnologist & kvasir and hacker Frantisek Algoldor
>>>>>>> Apfelbeck from Kasiri, Jeju repeatedly slept in the off-limits
>>>>>>> south stairwell at Noisebridge, so anything he has to say about proper use
>>>>>>> of facilities should be taken with a grain of salt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeffrey
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <
>>>>>>> algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Hi to all,
>>>>>>> Just few notes on the kitchen, I have run and helped to equip many
>>>>>>> around the world and on variety of hacker events especially in last few
>>>>>>> years under the Food Hacking Base project which the Tastebridge was a first
>>>>>>> step I would say. It is interesting to see so many hackerspaces going
>>>>>>> forward on biotech, food hacking and brewing with Noisebridge being one of
>>>>>>> the forerunners with amazing set up around 2010 and 2011 and now well ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> stove - crucial. If you do not have a stove you can not cook most of
>>>>>>> the meals and brewing is an issue for many types of beverages, also you
>>>>>>> will have really problem to sterilize - pressure cooker works fine if you
>>>>>>> have one. Kitchen without stove is close to not being a kitchen, biotech
>>>>>>> applications need sterilization most of the time and heat treatment of
>>>>>>> ingredients is often crucial (and microwave is not a cure for everything).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> fridge - very important. To keep you perishable food ingredients,
>>>>>>> cultures and of course nice cold drinks it is more or less necessity, at
>>>>>>> least for reasonable food and beverage hacking. Kitchen without fridge is
>>>>>>> doable but quite an issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> preparation place - working bench if you like, crucial. Having some
>>>>>>> space to work on is crucial especially if you want to work fast and safe.
>>>>>>> Do not underestimate the height of the bench it hits your back if is too
>>>>>>> low or too high. This one is really important on hands on workshops.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sinks - crucial. For keeping the place clean and the work flow
>>>>>>> continuous sinks and preferably running water are really a key. If you do
>>>>>>> not have it, you are in trouble. Dishwasher works too, but well sink is
>>>>>>> sink.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> storage - for dry ingredients especially. If you want to play around
>>>>>>> you need your ingredients and they need to stored properly. Stainless steel
>>>>>>> or glass well sealed work very well, plastic is a good cheap alternative.
>>>>>>> Insect and rats may be an issue if they get out of hand which was a case in
>>>>>>> the building many times so this one has to be kept in mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The answer to how to keep the kitchen clean is both simple and
>>>>>>> complicated. The way which works for me and projects in which I'm involved
>>>>>>> is to get together people who enjoy playing with food, hacking, brewing,
>>>>>>> biotech and consuming&enjoying the products of their efforts and let them
>>>>>>> to organize the spot, sometimes poke them a bit if the things go out of
>>>>>>> hand. Better environment you have from the point of view of
>>>>>>> equipment/infrastructure and funds, more likely you are to form a nice and
>>>>>>> vibrant community around it and enjoy their achievements. Note as most of
>>>>>>> the things in community the social interactions are really important and
>>>>>>> preparing and sharing the meals and drinks brings together people really
>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best of luck with your kitchen plans, try to keep it nice and
>>>>>>> functional, it will pay off eventually. However even if you decide to
>>>>>>> destroy it, which I do not consider wise because it will not touch a core
>>>>>>> of the current problem, when the time comes, it will be build again, it
>>>>>>> will just require bit more dedicated people than if it is already standing
>>>>>>> and ready to be used.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely from Kasiri, Jeju,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS Just a note, yes the Noisebridge community has a major social
>>>>>>> issues and to start to resolve them lots of time and energy from people who
>>>>>>> are socially developed and sensitive will be needed, the question for you
>>>>>>> now is how to get them involved and enjoy their work and being productive.
>>>>>>> 091 labs in Galway, Ireland are running for a brewing classes for a while
>>>>>>> and it is generating lots of positive interest. Add some tech related
>>>>>>> project like the experimental incubator build up and you can start to move
>>>>>>> the things forward in a sound way - friendly, social and organized.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
>>>>>>> Gandhi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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