[Noisebridge-discuss] reasoning about the kitchen

rachel lyra hospodar rachelyra at gmail.com
Thu Apr 17 23:15:07 UTC 2014

Oh, I know that Jesse z is ancient history, because I was at the meeting
where he was banned.

At that meeting, he publicly admitted to harassing me, because he did not
think I was a hacker. When he said this, I spat onto the floor of
Noisebridge to indicate what I thought of his prejudice. I didn't consider
myself a 'hacker' until jake, and miloh, and Mitch, and Rachel1.0, welcomed
me into the fold. Until then I just made stuff and didn't bother joining
this identity group. Now, despite the welcome of many and the enmity of
relative few, once again I make stuff without bothering about my identity
group or being a part of yours.

I bring up this ancient history not to whinge about wrongs that were done
to me. I bring it up to use my own experiences to illuminate the social
forces at work in our little laboratory.  My point here is not that Jesse
is bad, but to illustrate the part of the leaky pipeline I have had the
pleasure of viewing during my time of participation at Noisebridge. I
wasn't seeking your welcome, as i have been amply welcomed to noisebridge
by many, have a door key, have in fact served on its board. I believe
everyone is welcome at noisebridge as long as they are pursuing the
creative use of technology.

One of the tragedies of harassment is that one needn't believe or
internalize the things the harasser says in order for the chilling effect
to function.

Feel free to ignore this facet of things but diminishing its effect rather
misses my point - that it very clearly has an effect. Exploring the
dimensions of harassment seems part of a scientific approach to addressing
it. As I say in my previous post, growing up female in America makes me
something of an automatic expert on the topic. Any male seeking to advise
me on the matter or how I deal with it had better take a number.

On Apr 17, 2014 11:04 AM, "Gregory Dillon" <gregorydillon at gmail.com> wrote:

> Cynthia is at the place now cleaning the kitchen, and sweeping the floor..
> And you are welcome to come back to the place.   Some of that stuff you
> talk about is ancient history in Noisebridge years.
> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:45 AM, rachel lyra hospodar <
> rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Before Jesse and Will called the cops on cynthia, she headed up an
>> ongoing cleaning effort that was pretty epic. It was in some ways used as a
>> justification for her presence in the space, which didn't necessarily go
>> over well with folks but the kitchen was at least usable at that time.
>> Since this incident was at the height of jesse z's alcoholic downward
>> spiral and hate-poisoning of Noisebridge (featuring harassment of and in at
>> least one case assault on various members), and hugely counter to the
>> ideals that I supported for the space, I stopped coming by.
>> I suspect that cynthia's cleaning efforts were part of what kept the
>> kitchen space usable then.
>> Perhaps she would like to be part of a cleaning working group.
>> Crazy people like being part of a community, too.
>> On Apr 15, 2014 4:17 PM, "Naomi Most" <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I don't really want to solve the problems of the kitchen, not here and
>>> not at all, really.  I'm not interested in the kitchen.  That's why it
>>> wouldn't bother me to remove it, which puts me in with those people in
>>> (6).
>>> Let's be clear here:  the point of Working Groups is to encourage
>>> responsibility for resources by placing the problem-solving tasks
>>> associated with those resources into the hands of those who are most
>>> interested in the resources.
>>> So, if anyone who has posted above is interested in forming a Kitchen
>>> Working Group, there's a blank wiki page awaiting your typing fingers.
>>> https://noisebridge.net/wiki/KitchenWorkingGroup
>>> Otherwise, there is only one Action Item:
>>> I don't care what the solutions are.  The people using the kitchen the
>>> most will find the best solutions, or else they will end up without a
>>> kitchen.  That's the whole point.
>>> --Naomi
>>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 6:09 PM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Yes! All great stuff. To be institutionalized by the Cleaning Working
>>> > Group-- not a one-time soon-to-be-forgotten suggestions on a Mailing
>>> list.
>>> >
>>> > People need to realize many of your suggestions-- signage, shutting
>>> down the
>>> > kitchen, etc, have been tried by others before you! It didn't work! You
>>> > really think you're the first people to talk about this problem? Been
>>> an
>>> > issue for YEARS.
>>> >
>>> > Unstructured comments on a mailing list are not an effective
>>> problem-solving
>>> > process. Needs a long-term Working Group.
>>> >
>>> > Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Actionable Options:
>>> >
>>> > New "Controlled Decay" or "Cleaning" email list for active
>>> clean-conscious
>>> > Noisebridgers
>>> > Convergence of primary actors in seeing and investing in changes (a
>>> > "meeting" or better a "cleaning party!")
>>> >
>>> > What about a cleaning party announced at beginning&end 5MOF on Thurs
>>> for
>>> > after the event, with a concrete end time, a chance to meet folks who
>>> may
>>> > want to transform kitchen usage at the space? Decide on a second time
>>> to
>>> > meet (every Thurs? every 5MOF?)
>>> >
>>> > Write and improve wiki pages on things like:
>>> >
>>> > Strategies for cleaning and maintaining a kitchen
>>> > Lessons learned from other spaces, inspirations
>>> > Articulating a shared vision of the future of food / cleaning /etc.
>>> >
>>> > Build consensus by bringing it to weekly meeting every week until
>>> > improvement or some other resolution can be found.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> Cynthia and several others who are important in this
>>> >> discussion are not on the mailing list.
>>> >>
>>> >> J: Cynthia is a non-hacker, non-member, who to my knowledge has never
>>> >> distinguished herself for cleaning or helping noisebridge, but has
>>> >> distinguished herself by moving hacking tables out of the library
>>> into the
>>> >> kitchen last time the kitchen was "shut down".
>>> >>
>>> >> Why should Cynthia have any damn voice in this discussion?
>>> >>
>>> >> Shall the non-hacking squatters have a voice in the sleeping
>>> discussion?
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >
>>> >
>>> --
>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>> skype: nthmost
>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> --
> Let's stay in touch.  Greg
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