[Noisebridge-discuss] reasoning about the kitchen

Gregory Dillon gregorydillon at gmail.com
Thu Apr 17 23:32:56 UTC 2014

I was just working on a simpler level of wanting to see good people using
the space, and by drawing  attention to current usage at the physical
space, I was being simple.

I had no intention to diminish a disturbing experience,  and I'm sorry that
it came out that way.

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 4:15 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
<rachelyra at gmail.com>wrote:

> Oh, I know that Jesse z is ancient history, because I was at the meeting
> where he was banned.
> At that meeting, he publicly admitted to harassing me, because he did not
> think I was a hacker. When he said this, I spat onto the floor of
> Noisebridge to indicate what I thought of his prejudice. I didn't consider
> myself a 'hacker' until jake, and miloh, and Mitch, and Rachel1.0, welcomed
> me into the fold. Until then I just made stuff and didn't bother joining
> this identity group. Now, despite the welcome of many and the enmity of
> relative few, once again I make stuff without bothering about my identity
> group or being a part of yours.
> I bring up this ancient history not to whinge about wrongs that were done
> to me. I bring it up to use my own experiences to illuminate the social
> forces at work in our little laboratory.  My point here is not that Jesse
> is bad, but to illustrate the part of the leaky pipeline I have had the
> pleasure of viewing during my time of participation at Noisebridge. I
> wasn't seeking your welcome, as i have been amply welcomed to noisebridge
> by many, have a door key, have in fact served on its board. I believe
> everyone is welcome at noisebridge as long as they are pursuing the
> creative use of technology.
> One of the tragedies of harassment is that one needn't believe or
> internalize the things the harasser says in order for the chilling effect
> to function.
> Feel free to ignore this facet of things but diminishing its effect rather
> misses my point - that it very clearly has an effect. Exploring the
> dimensions of harassment seems part of a scientific approach to addressing
> it. As I say in my previous post, growing up female in America makes me
> something of an automatic expert on the topic. Any male seeking to advise
> me on the matter or how I deal with it had better take a number.
> R.
> On Apr 17, 2014 11:04 AM, "Gregory Dillon" <gregorydillon at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Cynthia is at the place now cleaning the kitchen, and sweeping the
>> floor..
>> And you are welcome to come back to the place.   Some of that stuff you
>> talk about is ancient history in Noisebridge years.
>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:45 AM, rachel lyra hospodar <
>> rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Before Jesse and Will called the cops on cynthia, she headed up an
>>> ongoing cleaning effort that was pretty epic. It was in some ways used as a
>>> justification for her presence in the space, which didn't necessarily go
>>> over well with folks but the kitchen was at least usable at that time.
>>> Since this incident was at the height of jesse z's alcoholic downward
>>> spiral and hate-poisoning of Noisebridge (featuring harassment of and in at
>>> least one case assault on various members), and hugely counter to the
>>> ideals that I supported for the space, I stopped coming by.
>>> I suspect that cynthia's cleaning efforts were part of what kept the
>>> kitchen space usable then.
>>> Perhaps she would like to be part of a cleaning working group.
>>> Crazy people like being part of a community, too.
>>> On Apr 15, 2014 4:17 PM, "Naomi Most" <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't really want to solve the problems of the kitchen, not here and
>>>> not at all, really.  I'm not interested in the kitchen.  That's why it
>>>> wouldn't bother me to remove it, which puts me in with those people in
>>>> (6).
>>>> Let's be clear here:  the point of Working Groups is to encourage
>>>> responsibility for resources by placing the problem-solving tasks
>>>> associated with those resources into the hands of those who are most
>>>> interested in the resources.
>>>> So, if anyone who has posted above is interested in forming a Kitchen
>>>> Working Group, there's a blank wiki page awaiting your typing fingers.
>>>> https://noisebridge.net/wiki/KitchenWorkingGroup
>>>> Otherwise, there is only one Action Item:
>>>> I don't care what the solutions are.  The people using the kitchen the
>>>> most will find the best solutions, or else they will end up without a
>>>> kitchen.  That's the whole point.
>>>> --Naomi
>>>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 6:09 PM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Yes! All great stuff. To be institutionalized by the Cleaning Working
>>>> > Group-- not a one-time soon-to-be-forgotten suggestions on a Mailing
>>>> list.
>>>> >
>>>> > People need to realize many of your suggestions-- signage, shutting
>>>> down the
>>>> > kitchen, etc, have been tried by others before you! It didn't work!
>>>> You
>>>> > really think you're the first people to talk about this problem? Been
>>>> an
>>>> > issue for YEARS.
>>>> >
>>>> > Unstructured comments on a mailing list are not an effective
>>>> problem-solving
>>>> > process. Needs a long-term Working Group.
>>>> >
>>>> > Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Actionable Options:
>>>> >
>>>> > New "Controlled Decay" or "Cleaning" email list for active
>>>> clean-conscious
>>>> > Noisebridgers
>>>> > Convergence of primary actors in seeing and investing in changes (a
>>>> > "meeting" or better a "cleaning party!")
>>>> >
>>>> > What about a cleaning party announced at beginning&end 5MOF on Thurs
>>>> for
>>>> > after the event, with a concrete end time, a chance to meet folks who
>>>> may
>>>> > want to transform kitchen usage at the space? Decide on a second time
>>>> to
>>>> > meet (every Thurs? every 5MOF?)
>>>> >
>>>> > Write and improve wiki pages on things like:
>>>> >
>>>> > Strategies for cleaning and maintaining a kitchen
>>>> > Lessons learned from other spaces, inspirations
>>>> > Articulating a shared vision of the future of food / cleaning /etc.
>>>> >
>>>> > Build consensus by bringing it to weekly meeting every week until
>>>> > improvement or some other resolution can be found.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> Cynthia and several others who are important in this
>>>> >> discussion are not on the mailing list.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> J: Cynthia is a non-hacker, non-member, who to my knowledge has never
>>>> >> distinguished herself for cleaning or helping noisebridge, but has
>>>> >> distinguished herself by moving hacking tables out of the library
>>>> into the
>>>> >> kitchen last time the kitchen was "shut down".
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Why should Cynthia have any damn voice in this discussion?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Shall the non-hacking squatters have a voice in the sleeping
>>>> discussion?
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> --
>>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>> skype: nthmost
>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> --
>> Let's stay in touch.  Greg

Let's stay in touch.  Greg
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