[Noisebridge-discuss] mongodb and noisebridge

Wed Jul 22 18:17:41 UTC 2015

Yes!  Thank you Praveen for bring it up too, especially in this context.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:00 AM, <tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:

> Same. I'll be there again tonight before the shop safety class. I was there
> last night for a bit before the meeting and had a really great discussion.
>
> This is all a very good discussion and helps all us figure out what
> Noisebridge means to us.
>
> ~~consensus~~
>
> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 10:09:53 AM Ronald Cotoni wrote:
> > This is part of a greater discussion and I welcome it.  I am also going
> to
> > be at noise bridge tonight if anyone wants to discuss this in person.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Jehan Tremback <
> jehan.tremback at gmail.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I'm not incredibly active at Noisebridge, so take my commentary as just
> > > commentary, but let's think of two scenarios:
> > >
> > > 1. People can come to Noisebridge and host QnA's about technical
> topics.
> > > If they are not disruptive, no problem.
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > 2. People are judged ad-hoc for perceived political alignment (not even
> > > actual political positions!), and then pressured to "donate" if their
> > > character is judged to not be radical enough.
> > >
> > > I'd like to see anyone who wants to teach people about open source
> code to
> > > feel free to do that at Noisebridge without being judged against some
> > > activist litmus test. Also, isn't it even more compromising of
> > > Noisebridge's values to become some sort of for-charge seminar space?
> The
> > > combination of radical rhetoric and rent-seeking is rather blatant, and
> > > somewhat offputting.
> > >
> > > -Jehan
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:16 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >> Hey folks,
> > >>
> > >> In the interest of not blocking anyone and getting more expedited,
> I've
> > >> taken this offlist.  If I come across as abrasive, I apologize - I
> know
> > >> that Bryan is a great person doing very cool things, and indeed I
> hope to
> > >> participate in the MongoDB sessions myself... But a corporation is a
> > >> corporation is a profit extracting at all costs feelingless machine
> and
> > >> it
> > >> needs to be dealt with accordingly.
> > >>
> > >> When thinking about an appropriate donation, I'm using a formula
> > >>
> > >> something like:
> > >>       cost per square foot  * marketing/bizdev cost modifier *
> > >>
> > >> bizdev/marketing budget modifier * hr/recruiting costs modifier *
> > >> noisebridge premium
> > >>
> > >> We are a centrally located hackerspace attracting some of the best
> talent
> > >> in the bay and the world.
> > >>
> > >> I'll do some research and plug some initial numbers in there tomorrow
> > >> (unless anyone else has a starting point) so bryan can get everything
> > >> calendared in ASAP.
> > >>
> > >> I've also gone ahead and cc'ed mitch and naomi,  in case they have
> input
> > >>
> > >> :)
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:43 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>> I'll see you next tuesday!
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
> > >>>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>> Praveen, first of all hi!  Second, lets take this to a meeting or
> > >>>> something.  This is not the place for this type of discussion.
> This is
> > >>>> also pretty drama filled right now and is basically a sore spot.
> Noise
> > >>>> bridge is ultimately a maker space and a hacker space.  It is used
> to
> > >>>> create amazing things with software, hardware or even non technical
> > >>>> things.  Yes, there are some politics discussed at noise bridge and
> we
> > >>>> welcome all to have rational discussions about all topics, as long
> as
> > >>>> you
> > >>>> respect those around you and treat them with excellence.   Though
> that
> > >>>> happens a lot, that is clearly not our primary focus of making cool
> > >>>> things
> > >>>> and helping people learn to make cool things.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Let's end this discussion and have both you and Bryan come either
> this
> > >>>> week (short notice for me and most likely others) or next week and
> > >>>> discuss
> > >>>> this.  We could also plan a time that is not a Tuesday meeting so
> that
> > >>>> we
> > >>>> do not fill the meeting with this one subject if there is enough
> > >>>> interest.
> > >>>> Do you feel like organizing that Praveen since you seem to have a
> lot
> > >>>> of
> > >>>> vested interest in this particular subject?  I can help facilitate.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <
> > >>>>
> > >>>> jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>> I’m pretty sure he would. It’s not that intense, really.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Jeffrey
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:54 PM, 2011PIguppy2011 <
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 2011PIguppy2011 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>> Praveen I would highly encourage you to make these statements
> face to
> > >>>>>> face instead of over the internet.  It's really draining and I
> would
> > >>>>>> be
> > >>>>>> very surprised if you felt it was appropriate to speak to someone
> > >>>>>> like that
> > >>>>>> in person.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com
> >
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> The issues of giving corporate free passes is centrally linked to
> > >>>>>>> very real gentrification issues, inside and outside noisebridge.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Inside noisebridge:
> > >>>>>>>     - we still don't have disabled or elderly accessible
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> environments even after years of being here.  Our members with
> > >>>>>>> accessibility issues often have to go to great struggles to
> figure
> > >>>>>>> out if
> > >>>>>>> they can be at the space.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>      - we are still a monolingual environment, with our wiki
> being
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> english only inside a strong bilingual community
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> The list can go on about noisebridge and the immediate
> neighborhood,
> > >>>>>>> like providing mesh access to the low income in the community.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Having cash to do such things, beyond worrying about basic rent
> is
> > >>>>>>> of immense value.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> And yet we have actors like Jehan privileging free access to a
> cash
> > >>>>>>> heavy corporation because they use the AGPL in their product.
> It's
> > >>>>>>> very
> > >>>>>>> admirable that a company should do such a thing, but by that
> logic
> > >>>>>>> would
> > >>>>>>> you invite Oracle in to give demos because Mysql is open source?
> > >>>>>>> Preposterous.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Noisebridge is not broken.  Our job is not to attract wealth
> people
> > >>>>>>> from far away places like palo alto.  We have value inside our
> own
> > >>>>>>> communities, in Noisebridge, in the Mission, that we have to
> develop
> > >>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>> emerge to be next cutting edge.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> In so far as politics at noisebridge -- I'm sorry but NB is an
> > >>>>>>> explicitly political space. We host and talk about issues that
> are
> > >>>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>> importance to hackers that include digital rights, free internet,
> > >>>>>>> and yes
> > >>>>>>> gentrification and tech class divide in urban areas like the
> mission
> > >>>>>>> district.  If you feel differently, I welcome you to shut down
> > >>>>>>> Techno
> > >>>>>>> Activism Tuesdays and the many other projects we've hosted here.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:55 PM, 2011PIguppy2011 <
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> 2011PIguppy2011 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> As far as I am concerned, free office hours are just that. I
> don't
> > >>>>>>>> see the point in injecting SF city politics / hot button issues
> > >>>>>>>> into this
> > >>>>>>>> and I see it as blatant trolling. Noisebridge is not a political
> > >>>>>>>> nonprofit.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> It would be great to have more responsible people in the space
> at a
> > >>>>>>>> regular time using it to hack on tech. He said it was open
> office
> > >>>>>>>> hours for
> > >>>>>>>> whoever.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Monday, July 20, 2015, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Garrett Smith <
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> dhtmlkitchen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> > We usually announce on Twitter that we’ll be available at
> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> venue and
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> > typically expect about 10 to 12 people to drop in on
> average.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Anyone with
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> > questions about MongoDB are welcome. I’d like to start the
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> first "office
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> > hours” Thursday the 23rd, from 4-6 PM.  Do you feel that
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge is an
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> > appropriate please to host these small meetups?
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I think that it's doocratic in the spirit of Noisebridge.
> You'll
> > >>>>>>>>>> need
> > >>>>>>>>>> to chec the schedule for room availability of Turing or Church
> > >>>>>>>>>> before
> > >>>>>>>>>> booking your room by editing the wiki.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I vehemently disagree  -- MongoDB is a for profit company that
> > >>>>>>>>> would otherwise pay top dollar to have real estate to run
> where it
> > >>>>>>>>> can get
> > >>>>>>>>> mindshare for other engineers.   While I support noisebridge to
> > >>>>>>>>> support our
> > >>>>>>>>> own community members to launch their for profit projects (for
> > >>>>>>>>> example,
> > >>>>>>>>> mitch altman pitching his electronics), it's frankly because of
> > >>>>>>>>> companies
> > >>>>>>>>> like MongoDB getting a free ride from the city that not only is
> > >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge's rent going up, but everyone in the neighborhood
> > >>>>>>>>> getting
> > >>>>>>>>> kicked out as well.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge it  /community/ space - so I really have ask, what
> > >>>>>>>>> concrete value does MongoDB add to this community?   Why not
> give
> > >>>>>>>>> Microsoft
> > >>>>>>>>> or Apple free space to develop mindshare in our community?
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> We may need cash, and once again our non-profit status does not
> > >>>>>>>>> allow us to have in-kind donations.  But, if you really want to
> > >>>>>>>>> play ball
> > >>>>>>>>> with these companies, we better make our benefit very tangible
> and
> > >>>>>>>>> make it *a lot*.  MongoDB would otherwise pay thousands if not
> > >>>>>>>>> tens of
> > >>>>>>>>> thousands to have a deal somewhere else in the city.  We are a
> > >>>>>>>>> premium spot
> > >>>>>>>>> for it, and we should make it such that even the poorest and
> most
> > >>>>>>>>> unconnected of us are able to benefit from it.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>> (Sent from cellphone)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Ronald Cotoni
> > >>>> Systems Engineer
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>

-- 
Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
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