[Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge Meeting 10/10/2017

Revolt revoltrightnow at gmail.com
Fri Oct 13 19:00:59 UTC 2017

>>If someone can find the right place to file a complaint that may or may not help press the landlord. I don't know what enforcement mechanisms the city had for commercial elevators that break down, or what rights we have as a lessee.>>

I can tell you from experience that there are pitiful laws for
enforcing ADA / elevator access.  As a commercial building I doubt the
landlord has any responsibility to do anything about it (as a
disability issue).  If it is in our lease (or not) it could be
contested as a decrease in services.  Good luck with that.  A non
rent-controlled commercial building would mean little can be done
about it save for filing a lawsuit.  There may be some grounds in a
local ordinance for the non-profit zoning, but I doubt it.  I could
file a federal ADA complaint but that would impact Noisebridge, not
the landlord, so I am not going to do that.  Also, ADA hardly ever
even reads the complaints or takes them on (I've been through the
process before).

We need to just do this ourselves.  We have the funds and I don't see
any sensible reason to not use a small portion of that for repairs or
at least parts.


On 10/13/17, Revolt <revoltrightnow at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>    Good discussion on this so far.  I'll add my .02 and clarify some
> things:
>>> If someone were to actually do the research and find out how much it
>>> would cost to hire an elevator repair company, maybe that’s $500,
>>> maybe that’s $20,000
> I've tried making the point many times before, but many of the repairs
> /don't/ need an elevator repair company.  We need a machinist to fix
> the gate.  All the repairs I did could have been done by any standard
> electrician.  A quality union electrician runs ~$100/hr.  There are
> cheaper alternatives.  I think a large part of the elevator confusion
> comes from the assumption that
> super-expert-vintage-elevator-repair-god is needed to do simple
> repairs.  This is not the case.
>>> would absolutely need to think about it if it cost $10,000 or
>>> something.
> I think people are throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.  I
> am only asking to have a small (it can be any) amount of money set
> aside for elevator repair.  I'm not sure why that needs to jump to a
> discussion of thousands of dollars.  A couple hundred dollars would go
> a really long way right now.  All this talk about $10K++ is really
> avoiding the issue at hand and the real consensus request being made
> here.  Has Noisebridge ever used its funds to even spend $100 on the
> elevator?  To even consult with a single professional for 10 minutes?
> No, not as far as I know.  That's what I am asking that we change.  If
> that is impossible, than a small fund for parts at the very least.
>>> In this actual case, this discussion led to an observer pledging money
>>> to a dedicated Elevator Repair Fund nearly double the size of what was
>>> originally requested, which I consider a good outcome.
> This is great!  Who is this mystery person (or do they want to remain
> anonymous?)  I would like to get in contact with them.  I can do some
> of the research on a qualified repair person to come to NB and I can
> fill them in on repairs so far.
> -Zach
> On 10/13/17, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>      we should settle on an upper limit for
>> what we're willing to spend on elevator
>> repairs, significantly less than $10K in
>> my view.
>>      I'm willing to chip in if someone tells
>> me where, who, how.
>>     i'm for an earmarked fund to be used for
>> small, maybe medium, repairs in the case
>> that we can't first get the landlord and
>> agents to respond. the elevator is of
>> elevated importance for disabled and for
>> heavy loads (including garbae).
>> On 10/13/2017 04:33 PM, John Shutt wrote:
>>> I spent yesterday at the Department of Building Inspection with
>>> revised plans, which were rejected since we need a signature from a
>>> licensed architect. I’m reaching out to a friend who is a licensed
>>> architect to see if I can get them to sign the drawings as the
>>> architect of record. I also need to look into our insurance liability
>>> for third-party “contractors” like architects or accountants.
>>> The possible consequence is that DBI decides to call a Director’s
>>> Hearing, which hears evidence on the complaint and decides what to do
>>> next. I have documentation showing that we tried to submit our plans
>>> before the deadline, and a voicemail from the inspector saying that we
>>> needed drawings “by a licensed architect or design professional,”
>>> which is the root of the confusion: we have drawings by a design
>>> professional, but not a licensed architect. So typically if it gets to
>>> a Director’s Hearing and there are more inspections needed, we would
>>> need to pay a fee for those extra inspections. I would push back on
>>> that since we have clearly been trying hard to comply with the
>>> instructions we were given.
>>> Bureaucracy is a mess, but we’ll get through it. We shouldn’t have to
>>> tear down the SparkleForge.
>>> @Kevin: As I said before, from what I’ve been told, I’m the only
>>> person who donated to Zach’s PayPal address when he posted it after
>>> working to fix the elevator. I’m putting my personal money where my
>>> mouth is when it comes to this, and I’m flat broke. Did you donate? If
>>> not, how dismayed are you really?
>>> The two questions are whether Noisebridge should invest general fund
>>> money into the building besides what we are ordered to invest by the
>>> state, and whether Noisebridge should pay people out of the general
>>> fund for their time and work on the space. From the feedback we’ve
>>> gotten, the answer to the second question is no. People have blocking
>>> concerns.
>>> The answer to the first question seems to be “yes, up to a point.” We
>>> would absolutely need to think about it if it cost $10,000 or
>>> something. Our lease is up next year. If we spend a huge amount of our
>>> money on a building we don’t own and then get kicked out, we might be
>>> screwed. Maybe that money would be better spent moving to a different
>>> building. Maybe we can find a way to force the landlord to pay for it.
>>> Have you researched how to force the landlord to pay? Or how much
>>> repairs cost? Do you have numbers that could actually help us make
>>> decisions about how to fix the elevator?
>>> Of course you have to think about this stuff. If you don’t think about
>>> it you run out of money. If you do think about it, you survive. If
>>> someone were to actually do the research and find out how much it
>>> would cost to hire an elevator repair company, maybe that’s $500,
>>> maybe that’s $20,000. Maybe if it’s $20,000 we still decide to spend
>>> it. More likely we work it out with the landlord where we would pay
>>> for the repairs and deduct it from our rent. Or if we can’t force the
>>> landlord to comply, we hold a major fundraiser.
>>> As for your hypothetical, I would have the exact same response if
>>> there was a critical issue with the third-floor door. I would suggest
>>> that I would support spending a certain amount of money to fix it, but
>>> it would be preferable if people raised money independently for the
>>> project. That’s obviously preferable since it keeps from draining the
>>> general fund.
>>> In this actual case, this discussion led to an observer pledging money
>>> to a dedicated Elevator Repair Fund nearly double the size of what was
>>> originally requested, which I consider a good outcome.  If that’s
>>> inadequate to keep the elevator in good repair, then we can match it
>>> with money from the equipment fund. So now we have $1,440 to work
>>> with, without tapping the general fund. That’s $1,040 more than was
>>> requested, and it’s available because we discussed it.
>>> If that’s still not enough, we can think and talk about tapping the
>>> general fund—and my feeling is that we should! But it always has to be
>>> talked about and thought through, to arrive at the best outcome.
>>> Best,
>>> John Shutt
>>>> On Oct 12, 2017, at 10:55 PM, frankbn at nym.hush.com
>>>> <mailto:frankbn at nym.hush.com> wrote:
>>>> What is the status of "Building Permit Application#inspectiongate?"
>>>> What will happen at 2:00 PM Friday?
>>>> On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 21:48:30 -0700 "kprichard"
>>>> <kprichard at gmail.com <mailto:kprichard at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Let's say the 3rd floor stairs door got stuck, nobody can come in
>>>>> or out.
>>>>> Landlord's repair person says they can't come for three weeks.
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