[Noisebridge-discuss] [drama] Noisebridge has a (potentially) newcommunication medium: The Noisebridge ning network!

Thu Dec 24 21:24:30 UTC 2009

I think by "silo", what jim and others who have mentioned this mean (correct
me if I'm wrong) is that all the content you add to the site is held outside
of your control.  You are entirely reliant on the site owners to do things
like make sure the data is safe and secure as well as accessible.  There's
no apparent interface or migration path if the business starts flaking out.
 (See Tribe.net as an example, although they're obviously getting better.)

For example, one of the things that we discussed when we started
using Google calendar for scheduling stuff is "what happens if we decide to
start hosting our own calendar instead?"  This application has an "export"
feature where we can just dump it into a standard format output and upload
it to our own app once we get that up and running.  Oh, and as an aside to
this aside... Using the calendar in addition to the events page has caused
more than a few problems, since they're not synced and few people check
both.

As a group of "hackers" we're keenly aware of the threats to control and
privacy that go on out there.  Not just from other hackers, but from
government type organizations who may decide us to be a threat somehow.
 There's a lot of history there.  To allow other organizations control (i.e.
the ability to censor) without transparency (i.e. our ability to know that
they're doing it) .

I dunno if you've read through the Terms of Service for that site, although
I somehow doubt it.  It's a bit of a long one with 33 sections that cover
everything from ownership of content to member data collections by site
owners.  It's not a particularly bad policy and it's clear they're trying to
be reasonable, but there are a few things (like permanent, perpetual,
irrevocable, free license to all your IP) that are a bit uncomfortable.

We think about these things and invite you to as well.

Christie
_______
Getting to the bottom of the hill is convenient. The view from the top of
the hill is stunning. Where would you choose to live?

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Noise Bridge <noisebridgening at gmail.com>wrote:

> thanks for the reply, Jim.
>
> you're right. the "sales pitch" way i went about presenting this might not
> have been the best way to present something i made to people. it was too
> formal i think. i guess i was just so nervous about putting it out there
> that i thought that maybe if i was comprehensive enough with peoples
> concerns and was able to communicate the benefits of the medium along side
> the current systems that people might take to it easier. i do see now how
> that, coupled with my chosen anonymity, my stiff 'pitch' would make people a
> bit iffy about using the ning. Still, i would have hoped people would at
> least give it a chance and try using it just a little before completely
> bashing the mere idea into the ground. Part of what i thought made a
> do-ocracy work wasn't just taking the initiative but by learning by doing as
> well.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by the 'silo' aspect of this idea though. if you
> mean 'everyone get in here and don't use the other stuff we already have'
> i'm vehemently opposed to that. this was made with the mailing list, IRC,
> and wiki in mind and is supposed to be used in parallel with those things
> (if you noticed i added a few links on the site that point to relevant info
> on the wiki). I fully encourage cross-pollination of ideas between the
> systems. the more places an idea is presented, the more exposure it can get,
> and the more input you might receive. it wouldn't be hard to submit an idea
> to both the discussion mailing list AND the ning and refer to them both for
> help. I know from experience this is not only possible, not not as hard to
> follow as it might sound. I've participated in a few Alternate Reality Games
> and there have been times where two forums are working on the same puzzles.
> sometimes one forum solves it before the other, or another forum notices
> something the other didn't, and they share the information. the forums,
> created separately and sometimes without the knowledge of the other in the
> beginning, will eventually combine forces and quote important info between
> mediums to make sure everyone is on track and playing the game well. I have
> do doubt this could work just as well with the ning and the mailing
> list/IRC/wiki. i think if an idea has enough people interested in it it'll
> be a small matter to pay attention to more than one threads of discussion.
>
> if you don't mean it that way... well my opinion still stands but i'll need
> a better definition from you to understand your concern :)
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 8:40 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>   seems to me the [drama] tag isn't much appropriate.
>> yes, these long-winded discussions are often packed
>> with passion, but my take is that air is being cleared,
>> tho'ts and concepts exercised and exposed to stresses,
>> i.e. such email firestorms have a good purpose.
>>   in this case, seems to me a big part of the topic
>> results from the "sales pitch" aspect of anon's
>> approach.
>>   there is also the "silo" aspect to committing to a
>> new system (not sure to what extent that's a problem
>> for NB folks, but there is the attendant idea that
>> whatever is expressed in such an external system may
>> at some point incorrectly reflect noisebridge).
>>   speaking for myself alone, i wish mr. anon would
>> just use it and let us know from time to time that
>> it's updated so we can check it out if we so choose.
>>   also, to repeat myself, my preference is to use
>> open source software to implement such a service.
>> note i have an aversion to enterprise services with
>> four-letter words that end with "ing".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2009-12-24 at 04:50 -0800, Christie Dudley wrote:
>> > [For those who are following along at home, I am quite serious about
>> > the drama tag in this email.  I'm feeling snarky today.  But hopefully
>> > it'll prove entertaining.  Thanks David Fine for such a great idea!]
>> >
>> > Wow, dude.  You seriously aren't getting it.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 3:16 AM, Noise Bridge
>> > <noisebridgening at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >         Re 1) excuse me? 'one of us'? sorry but there IS no 'one of
>> >         us'. There's just EVERYONE. sorry if you mistook NB as a club
>> >         house but that's not how things work.
>> >         anyone can come in and do anything they want. no one should
>> >         have to be 'established' or something to present an idea.
>> >
>> > Thanks for letting me know how the organization I am a member of
>> > works.  I was previously unaware that there was no usual way of doing
>> > things, nor membership process.  I guess we've all been wasting our
>> > time.  I suppose I should just stop paying my dues right now because
>> > it's about everyone and not about some kind of elite club.
>> >
>> >
>> >         because it honestly doesn't matter in the least who i am. it
>> >         doesn't matter who made it. what matters is what's done with
>> >         it. i really didn't think people would be so paranoid about
>> >         such a non issue.
>> >
>> > While I agree that good ideas can come from any quarter, we have an
>> > almost continuous stream of people coming in who don't understand how
>> > we operate and what works and what doesn't trying to push this, that
>> > or another idea.  Many of them are even better informed than you, and
>> > trying to address real problems rather than trying to invent them.
>> > I'm trying to do you a favor here in suggesting you either take your
>> > ideas elsewhere or try to get to know us better before trying to shove
>> > them down our throat.
>> >
>> > I heartily encourage you to hunt down the board members like the dogs
>> > they are.  I suggest Shannon, as he's best at this sort of thing.
>> > (*evil grin*)  I'm not sure what kind of admin you're looking for,
>> > though.  I think the sysadmin group meets on Tuesdays and Fridays, but
>> > I don't see what kind of relevance that has here.
>> >
>> >         Re 2) & 3) check the archives? you mean download two years
>> >         worth of mailing list logs and word find 'forum' until i come
>> >         to the right thread granted that i'm even in the right mailing
>> >         list to begin with? boy a search function would be mighty
>> >         helpful right now. i'm sorry but this all just seems like a
>> >         lot of talk and not a whole lot of do.
>> >
>> > See above discussion on what's gone before and what's already been
>> > tried.  Pardon me if I'm a bit jaded after having heard similar
>> > suggestions, pleas, or demands (and frankly yours sounds a whole lot
>> > like a demand) from 20 or 30 people before you.  Your approach isn't
>> > even really that original.  It's not our fault that you don't seem to
>> > care about who you're talking to enough to make a little effort to get
>> > to know them.
>> >
>> >         "I propose we form a committee to determine whether or not we
>> >         should think about implementing this system or a variation
>> >         thereof. But first we should vote on whether or not we should
>> >         even do THAT."
>> >
>> > Dude!  We don't even vote around here.  You should at least get that
>> > bit right.  If you feel so strongly about it, just do it and stop
>> > screaming about it.  Have you ever heard the term doocracy?  You
>> > should look it up.  Maybe you might learn something.
>> >
>> >         "Can't someone just make it and then we can figure out if we
>> >         like it or not after trying it?"
>> >         "no. we're going to talk about it at length."
>> >
>> > Why are you wasting your breath here?  You're someone, right? Why are
>> > you talking about it at so much length?
>> >
>> > Christie
>> > _______
>> > Getting to the bottom of the hill is convenient. The view from the top
>> > of the hill is stunning. Where would you choose to live?
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
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